Autism discussion

amateur said:

I recently started a new job. And already people are labelling me as weird or anti social.

What I wanna know is, why do they think I'm "strange", and not as timid, shy or reserved?

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Don't you just love how society views someone different to be weird, yet somehow think it's perfectly normal for complex social animals like humans in vast numbers of seven billion to be the same? I don't buy it really, and even so I wouldn't mind being called weird. It's not really a bad thing is it? Just remember that if you have trouble at the job: you being different is no stranger than everyone being the same.

amateur said:

I recently started a new job. And already people are labelling me as weird or anti social.

What I wanna know is, why do they think I'm "strange", and not as timid, shy or reserved?

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I have no idea. If I could answer that perhaps I wouldn't be wondering why my own social skills leave a lot to be desired.

(Yesterday my mother asked me, entirely out of the blue, if anyone had suggested I was autistic as an autistic lad she's been working with for several months now often reminds her of me. I'd previously wondered but eventually dismissed it either as irrelevant or simply the result of a strange upbringing, but now having an external opinion too...)

I stick to talking about work, the weather, and the trains being late/delayed/cancelled.
But people don't seem to appreciate that!

Otherwise it's backstabbing other members of staff, which don't do.

Find autism / aspbergers fascinated.
Sometimes i see it in people . Theres a guy in my college class who im sure has aspbergers , he has some of same traits as my friend ,such as muttering to himself , tilting his head and pouting oh oh when you say something .
Then theres a few ive seen that run of all a sudden for no reason .

route101 said:

Then theres a few ive seen that run of all a sudden for no reason .

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It may seem like no reason to you, but to that individual there's probably a perfectly valid reason. For example, sensory issues can turn something which is perfectly tolerable and almost unnoticeable to people who aren't autistic into something unbearably uncomfortable for an autistic person.

amateur said:

Otherwise it's backstabbing other members of staff, which don't do.

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Sounds like a pretty toxic workplace. That doesn't go on at my workplace, and it's all the better for it. If it was that bad I'd be looking for a new job.

There also seems a link between rail enthusiasm and autism. Although this is fairly well known I believe there are certain factors which make the autistic mind and railways almost companions if you like. Fleet numbers, coloured liveries and looking out of the window using ones imagination. These are to name my reasons and a few more besides.

Bletchleyite said:

Sounds like a pretty toxic workplace. That doesn't go on at my workplace, and it's all the better for it. If it was that bad I'd be looking for a new job.

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Things have definitely changed this last few years but narrow mindedness can still be quite rife. I do find that most people are accepting of the Autistic spectrum however but I still find that you have to tell them things which you can`t always easy to do, hence the communication difficulties.

alxndr said:

It may seem like no reason to you, but to that individual there's probably a perfectly valid reason. For example, sensory issues can turn something which is perfectly tolerable and almost unnoticeable to people who aren't autistic into something unbearably uncomfortable for an autistic person.

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I understand.
Another is the honesty thing , sometimes the person with aspbergers will bring you up or say something that you have done , when you dont want to .

route101 said:

Find autism / aspbergers fascinated .

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I find the communication element fascinating. I will never understand phatic communication.

Or when people say "lets meet up some time" and then ghost you. I have learned the hard way.

As someone on the spectrum communication is a minfield.

amateur said:

I find the communication element fascinating. I will never understand phatic communication.

Or when people say "lets meet up some time" and then ghost you. I have learned the hard way.

As someone on the spectrum communication is a minfield.

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Yeah i get that , i think people are just being polite or rude.
My mate who has aspbergers is notorious for not turning up on time or at all . When asked its like there is no sense of urgency or importance or he decided not to and wanted his own space .

amateur said:

I recently started a new job. And already people are labelling me as weird or anti social.

What I wanna know is, why do they think I'm "strange", and not as timid, shy or reserved?

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Because you're not giving off the same subconscious signals that a neurotypical "timid/shy/reserved" person would.

I get people reacting funny to me and it is quite evident that they are expecting some kind of reaction or signal from me which they're not getting - because whatever it is they're looking for might as well be Martian as far as I'm concerned. Or maybe they are getting it but the timing or emphasis is nonconforming, or they're getting some other signal entirely. I don't know, I haven't got a clue what they want and these days I don't care any more.

Pigeon said:

Because you're not giving off the same subconscious signals that a neurotypical "timid/shy/reserved" person would.

I get people reacting funny to me and it is quite evident that they are expecting some kind of reaction or signal from me which they're not getting - because whatever it is they're looking for might as well be Martian as far as I'm concerned. Or maybe they are getting it but the timing or emphasis is nonconforming, or they're getting some other signal entirely. I don't know, I haven't got a clue what they want and these days I don't care any more.

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What do they say to get a reaction off you ?

I get similar . Noticed people assume im shy etc , i try and be sociable and make the effort but you can tell they arent too excited or want to continue . In addition im nearly 30 and work with people up to ten years younger also at college too . They may be think ive failed at an earlier stage and cautious with me .

Well I can bluff my way through talking about the football games. When that ends what do I talk about next.

I shall have to conform to a neurotypical interest, and force myself to watch wimbledon, just so I can engage with my work colleagues.

Give me strength.

Pigeon said:

Because you're not giving off the same subconscious signals that a neurotypical "timid/shy/reserved" person would.

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And what would those subconscious signals be?

amateur said:

And what would those subconscious signals be?

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Weeeelllllll.......

Thing is, as an autistic person (diagnosis: high-function autism) I cannot tell you for sure what the signals are, but I do know from 40+ years experience that whatever they are, neurotypicals have an ability to pick them up.

On the other hand, now I've got to an age and point in my life where I'm "out and proud" so far as being autistic goes (i.e. I'm not really bothered what NTs, think of me, if they have a problem with people like me, they need to get over it.... after I'd had a bad time for a few years, a year of counselling from a specialist in the LGBT community helped me get my head around self-acceptance), and find being very open albeit not pushy about what I am and trying not to hide it but being confident in myself rather than trying to mimic NT behaviour too much, ironically I get much more acceptance from NT people- and on terms that works for both parties.

What I *think* happens is that what NT people pick up is the "faking it" signals, so if you're "genuine but odd" then mostly things work better. Also, an autistic person being themselves is likely to be a lot less anxious, and wil l have more cognitive funciton left to interact..... probably part of it. Yeah, OK, so there is always a proportion of bottom-feeders who will try make you into their version of "normal" before they will "accept" you, but those folks are not-nice to everyone in the same way (tip- if your boss is like that and you're autistic, find another job, trust me they will never quit picking on you for not being like they think you should be).

My advice- be yourself. Be confident in your autistic self. Seek special interests that engage you, and contact with people n those spheres will follow. And don't stress too much about not being able to make small-talk.

Oh, and as you get more comfortable in your own skin, you will probably find you subconsciously end up interacting with other neurodiverse people.

TPO.

amateur said:

I recently started a new job. And already people are labelling me as weird or anti social.

What I wanna know is, why do they think I'm "strange", and not as timid, shy or reserved?

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Because the human being is a social animal. It's how you present yourself as not wanting to socialise with other people which will lead to you being labelled odd or strange rather than timid or shy.

Bromley boy said:

This is the point.

Of course for high functioning autistics such as yourself a special school would not be the right place at all, but for people further down the spectrum it is the only sensible option.

Of course mainstream education is far cheaper so it is very tempting for local authorities to lump all autistic people together, using equality as an excuse, in order to avoid paying for special provision for those who do need it.

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Agree.

My two half brothers are a case in point, the older one, has high functioning autism coupled with ADHD, his behavioral problems meant that he was put in a special school relatively early, as the mainstream primary school he was in realised they couldn't handle him. Since he went into the special school, has grades dramatically improved and is finding his own niche within mathematics.

My younger brother also has autism but is at the lower end of the spectrum, Unlike his older brother he doesn't have any behavioral problems, is more creatively minded. Being creative alone has put him at a disadvantage within mainstream Primary education, as of recent years they tend to focus on Maths and English, rather than arts based stuff. Anyway the school had tried their best to retain him, we think for funding reasons, despite the fact being in year 6 (age 10) now, his work is of a similar standard to children in year 2 (age 6 - 7 I think), and he hasn't really progressed since then. We felt contrary, to the schools opinion that he would do better in a special school.

Although thankfully in September he's due to start in a special school from year 7 onwards. My hope is that they focus on his creative skills, his previous schools emphasis on logical skills, has made him feel very left behind and he's lost any interest in learning. I hope he regains his interest in learning, otherwise this could affect him for life.

To be honest the way mainstream schools chews up and spits out many autistics is disgusting.

Bayum said:

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, I have a child whose needs the school isn’t able to meet. There is little to no work in their books since January and their progress has plateaued and probably even fallen from any they mind in the Autumn term. There are huge indications that this child is on the autisitic spectrum and even more so on pathological demand avoidance (PDA). This is a form of autism that makes the child completely resistant to demands or anything they perceive to be in the form of a demand.

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PDA I've never heard of that before, is there any strategies of encouraging the child to do tasks that have been set. IE making the child think they're doing the task on their terms. Apologies if I've grossly misunderstood what PDA is.

amateur said:

Well I can bluff my way through talking about the football games. When that ends what do I talk about next.

I shall have to conform to a neurotypical interest, and force myself to watch wimbledon, just so I can engage with my work colleagues.

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Personally I wouldn't bluff my way through something like that. If I don't know anything about something that someone else is very interested in, I'd simply say it's not something know much about/follow/etc. and ask them and let them tell me. Almost noone is going to be offended that you don't like the same things they do PROVIDED you are not judgemental about it. And most people will feel happy and complimented that they get a chance to tell you about their passions. In my experience that's the key to keeping conversations going: Let people talk about what they like. A bit of humour rarely goes amiss too.

A few week's ago, a cashier serving me in a store asked me if I was watching the day's Football match. I have basically zero interest in football, and in fact up to the moment that she asked me, I had no idea that any match was happening that day (and only the foggiest idea at the back of my mind that this thing called the World Cup was vaguely going on somewhere). I didn't try to bluff anything - I cheerfully confessed my ignorance, commented about now I understood why the area was so crowded (it was a location with lots of pubs around), and expressed some sympathy with the extra work the cashier would have that day as a result. As far as I'm aware, that was a good social interaction that gave us both a (brief) happy shared experience. And I'm fairly sure it worked in part because I was completely comfortable with being ignorant. I'm fairly sure that, if I'd tried to bluff through it or acted uncomfortable about not knowing the football was on, then the conversation would probably have gone badly and left us both feeling awkward.

So my feeling would be: Don't try to force yourself to do things like watch Wimbledon. Just be happy and accept that you don't know much about it - and let any conversations that bring in Wimbledon flow from that starting point.

klambert said:

PDA I've never heard of that before, is there any strategies of encouraging the child to do tasks that have been set. IE making the child think they're doing the task on their terms. Apologies if I've grossly misunderstood what PDA is.

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I’ve sent you a PM.

DynamicSpirit said:

Personally I wouldn't bluff my way through something like that. If I don't know anything about something that someone else is very interested in, I'd simply say it's not something know much about/follow/etc. and ask them and let them tell me. Almost noone is going to be offended that you don't like the same things they do PROVIDED you are not judgemental about it. And most people will feel happy and complimented that they get a chance to tell you about their passions. In my experience that's the key to keeping conversations going: Let people talk about what they like. A bit of humour rarely goes amiss too.

A few week's ago, a cashier serving me in a store asked me if I was watching the day's Football match. I have basically zero interest in football, and in fact up to the moment that she asked me, I had no idea that any match was happening that day (and only the foggiest idea at the back of my mind that this thing called the World Cup was vaguely going on somewhere). I didn't try to bluff anything - I cheerfully confessed my ignorance, commented about now I understood why the area was so crowded (it was a location with lots of pubs around), and expressed some sympathy with the extra work the cashier would have that day as a result. As far as I'm aware, that was a good social interaction that gave us both a (brief) happy shared experience. And I'm fairly sure it worked in part because I was completely comfortable with being ignorant. I'm fairly sure that, if I'd tried to bluff through it or acted uncomfortable about not knowing the football was on, then the conversation would probably have gone badly and left us both feeling awkward.

So my feeling would be: Don't try to force yourself to do things like watch Wimbledon. Just be happy and accept that you don't know much about it - and let any conversations that bring in Wimbledon flow from that starting point.

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I can relate .

I work part time with people who are say 10 years younger , a lot of them are into x box and ps4 but i have no interest . One of first things they ask is what you play ? Im not a big movie watcher , and can be amazed that people can reel off movie quotes when they watch loads of movies or series . Usually i let them show off their knowledge though not everyone likes that .

klambert said:

Agree.

My two half brothers are a case in point, the older one, has high functioning autism coupled with ADHD, his behavioral problems meant that he was put in a special school relatively early, as the mainstream primary school he was in realised they couldn't handle him. Since he went into the special school, has grades dramatically improved and is finding his own niche within mathematics.

My younger brother also has autism but is at the lower end of the spectrum, Unlike his older brother he doesn't have any behavioral problems, is more creatively minded. Being creative alone has put him at a disadvantage within mainstream Primary education, as of recent years they tend to focus on Maths and English, rather than arts based stuff. Anyway the school had tried their best to retain him, we think for funding reasons, despite the fact being in year 6 (age 10) now, his work is of a similar standard to children in year 2 (age 6 - 7 I think), and he hasn't really progressed since then. We felt contrary, to the schools opinion that he would do better in a special school.

Although thankfully in September he's due to start in a special school from year 7 onwards. My hope is that they focus on his creative skills, his previous schools emphasis on logical skills, has made him feel very left behind and he's lost any interest in learning. I hope he regains his interest in learning, otherwise this could affect him for life.

To be honest the way mainstream schools chews up and spits out many autistics is disgusting.



PDA I've never heard of that before, is there any strategies of encouraging the child to do tasks that have been set. IE making the child think they're doing the task on their terms. Apologies if I've grossly misunderstood what PDA is.

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Erm, it’s a difficult one. You literally have to rearrange things for them so they feel as if they are in control of the situation. Giving two choices - “You need to do this or that” isn’t enough - they will not negotiate with this at all. Many children I’ve seen with PDA have personalised timetables with lessons they don’t want to do scratched off. Curriculum planning is important, trying to gain knowledge of their obsessions to link into your teaching or day is useful. Most of these strategies have been used in 1:1 situations, as it’s very difficult to run your class in this way without an extra adult.

I don't think I have mentioned this since I joined these Forums. I am autistic myself, I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome back in November 1997 when I was 10 years old. In addition to this diagnosis I have mental health issues aswell including Anxiety and Depression.

I recently studied a course in Autism, Level 2 Certificate Understanding Autism. I found the course rather interesting and it opened my eyes to aspects of Autism Spectrum Disorders that I was not aware of.

Bayum said:

Erm, it’s a difficult one. You literally have to rearrange things for them so they feel as if they are in control of the situation. Giving two choices - “You need to do this or that” isn’t enough - they will not negotiate with this at all. Many children I’ve seen with PDA have personalised timetables with lessons they don’t want to do scratched off. Curriculum planning is important, trying to gain knowledge of their obsessions to link into your teaching or day is useful. Most of these strategies have been used in 1:1 situations, as it’s very difficult to run your class in this way without an extra adult.

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Did tiny a bit of research into it, I will admit it sounds like educators such as yourself have a bit of a task on your hands! I'm interested as my wife was diagnosed with autism a few years back, I showed her your post about PDA and she said it was brought up in her diagnosis. As she's had a number of problems with employment due to it.

If parents think the education system for those with Autism and and PDA is bad. The world of work is even worse! Unforgiving ignorant managers, companys who only pay lip service to any employee support, toxic office culture, Machiavellian sods who use other employee problems to step all over them, to further themselves. Work sucks!

klambert said:

Did tiny a bit of research into it, I will admit it sounds like educators such as yourself have a bit of a task on your hands! I'm interested as my wife was diagnosed with autism a few years back, I showed her your post about PDA and she said it was brought up in her diagnosis. As she's had a number of problems with employment due to it.

If parents think the education system for those with Autism and and PDA is bad. The world of work is even worse! Unforgiving ignorant managers, companys who only pay lip service to any employee support, toxic office culture, Machiavellian sods who use other employee problems to step all over them, to further themselves. Work sucks!

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It’s a difficult job! I genuinely believe people don’t understand how difficult it is. I’m quite ‘lucky’ in the respect that the children with autism that I teach have been verbally communicative and, on the whole, quite calm and mellow. I’ve known colleagues who have had non-verbal autistic children in their classes and are working way below age-related expectations (ARE) and also children with autism who are unable to cope in a mainstream setting due to the massive sensory input and become very aggressive. That’s before you begin to think about how to differentiate for them and everyone else, and the multiple needs of other children in the class!

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