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HST Withdrawal
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cactustwirly
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Probably some ex GWR ones available later this year.
Depends on how quickly the Scotrail ones go off lease, as those are the priority atm.
Journeyman
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The big question mark is the EMT ones, as they're not PRM compliant and at the moment there's no plans on how to resolve this. Rather inconveniently the new franchise is due to start long before any new incumbent can solve the problem. Ultimately it's likely they'll be replaced by bi-modes, but that won't happen before the Dec 2019 PRM deadline.
Answers on a postcard...
cactustwirly
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Well it's more politically unacceptable to cull the fast service to Nottingham and peak services to Sheffield, than have inaccessible stock...
Journeyman
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I think ultimately there will have to be some sort of short-term compromise/derogation, or possibly the use of Mark 4s with HST power cars. Apparently someone has come up with a technical solution for this, overcoming the different ETH systems of HSTs and loco hauled stock.
Far north 37
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Think valenta have came up with an uprated power unit to enable the emt fleet to work with mk4s.
43096
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Valenta? I assume you mean MAN....
Far north 37
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Yes misprashed it being nostalgic haha
cjmillsnun
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Aren't there gauging issues with Mk4s on the MML?
tom1649
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If that's the case, I guess it would be preferable to sort out the gauging issues than to end up with no usable stock.
Hairy Bear
Member
22 platform edges require modifying, 12 platform faces complete rebuilding , Bedford to St. Pancras to allow mk4's to run, all to be done by Dec next year...Yeh right !
nat67
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Power cars and MK4's will probably be the answer or plug door pointless Mk3's.
cjmillsnun
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As there are 34 platforms that need some kind of altering, I suspect there will be a temporary derogation whilst stock is procured, or a cascade around so that reworked Mk3s go to EMT and Mk4s go elsewhere (XC?)
EDIT. I've just had a horrid thought.
XC Swap some vomiters with EMT HSTs with Mk4s.
EDIT. I've just had a horrid thought.
XC Swap some vomiters with EMT HSTs with Mk4s.
D9009Spotter
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Let's not forget the WCML partnership is on the horizon. Unpopular thought I know but the Voyagers from that franchise would be a welcome addition should the new franchisee decide to Bi-Mode the Holyhead services and the EM franchisee decide to offload their HSTs.
cactustwirly
Established Member
As there are 34 platforms that need some kind of altering, I suspect there will be a temporary derogation whilst stock is procured, or a cascade around so that reworked Mk3s go to EMT and Mk4s go elsewhere (XC?)
EDIT. I've just had a horrid thought.
XC Swap some vomiters with EMT HSTs with Mk4s.
That would require even more platforms to be modified...
Why? Meridians and Voyagers have the same bodyshell!
kje7812
Member
I think it's more: are mark 4's cleared for all of the XC route?
North of Doncaster and Wakefield, yes. South of them? Probably not...
Not gonna lie if that can’t be done then we as a country need our heads looking at. Identify what needs doing and get the job done
cjmillsnun
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It's probably quicker to adapt some Mk3s to comply.
InTheEastMids
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So to summarise - the MML HST situation faces a choice between 3 unsatisfactory solutions, which I have decided to nickname Dodge, Bodge and Fudge*
- dodge the 2020 deadline by a derogation from regulations
- bodge together a Franken-HST with Mk4s that will be even slower (it'll be more like a 2+9 with Mk3), and do a rush-job on up to 22 stations
- fudge the regulations with (perhaps) a single compliant Mk3 carriage per set
Perhaps there's a 4th option we haven't thought of, involving unicorns and slogans on the side of a bus, but I'm not even sure *that lot* are sufficiently delusional.
So, I'd comment that perhaps we're missing the point. Instead of debating the pros and cons of these solutions, we should be hopping mad that this situation has come to pass. To me, it's a lovely example of the failure of the industry structure to be accountable (by the way, I'm not advocating public ownership, because IMO it's DfT that's royally mucked everything up).
A thought experiment: Can you imagine the pyrotechnic outbursts and sackings at the HQ of IAG, if British Airways had been given 10 years notice that it wouldn't be able to fly 747s from Heathrow, were now less than 2 years from that deadline, and the senior execs had no workable plan?
OK, rant over. Where's my beer?
To make a token gesture at being on-topic - one reason EMT's HST power cars probably won't get a 2nd life with XC or some other 2nd tier operator is that this small fleet have different engines so are a little non-standard.
- dodge the 2020 deadline by a derogation from regulations
- bodge together a Franken-HST with Mk4s that will be even slower (it'll be more like a 2+9 with Mk3), and do a rush-job on up to 22 stations
- fudge the regulations with (perhaps) a single compliant Mk3 carriage per set
Perhaps there's a 4th option we haven't thought of, involving unicorns and slogans on the side of a bus, but I'm not even sure *that lot* are sufficiently delusional.
So, I'd comment that perhaps we're missing the point. Instead of debating the pros and cons of these solutions, we should be hopping mad that this situation has come to pass. To me, it's a lovely example of the failure of the industry structure to be accountable (by the way, I'm not advocating public ownership, because IMO it's DfT that's royally mucked everything up).
A thought experiment: Can you imagine the pyrotechnic outbursts and sackings at the HQ of IAG, if British Airways had been given 10 years notice that it wouldn't be able to fly 747s from Heathrow, were now less than 2 years from that deadline, and the senior execs had no workable plan?
OK, rant over. Where's my beer?
To make a token gesture at being on-topic - one reason EMT's HST power cars probably won't get a 2nd life with XC or some other 2nd tier operator is that this small fleet have different engines so are a little non-standard.
cjmillsnun
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I agree. It is a complete farce that it has become that way. Something should have been sorted a long time ago, and it is appalling that nothing has been done in time to ensure compliance. We are where we are and it should now be a priority to get new stock for the route. I suspect platform alterations will have to happen anyway as the obvious solution is complete fleet replacement with 802s and cascading the Meridians over to XC.
I also agree that most of EMTs power cars won't get any extra life after they leave Neville Hill. The 125 group will probably get a set, the ex-GC cars will be useful as spot hires, the others sadly will likely go to Booth's.
I also agree that most of EMTs power cars won't get any extra life after they leave Neville Hill. The 125 group will probably get a set, the ex-GC cars will be useful as spot hires, the others sadly will likely go to Booth's.
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