I thought it was just French immigration at St Pancras .
Heres a bit of a silly question but i always wondered , What happens if you show your UK Driving Licence at UK Border Control?
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Brexit Eurostar
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I thought it was just French immigration at St Pancras .
Heres a bit of a silly question but i always wondered , What happens if you show your UK Driving Licence at UK Border Control?
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James James
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They'd probably take you off to a dark room for a while. AFAIUI a UK driving licence isn't a proof of citizenship, and ergo useless at the UK border.
That was inbound.
I've been from Italy (Menaggio) to Switzerland (Lugano) on a route C12 service bus (both ways). In each border crossing, the bus slowed down to about 15mph (the channel where the boom was wasn't much wider than the bus) and then continued on its way. Hardly an issue, buth then (before the populists got into power in Rome), neither the Italians nor the Swiss had border paranoia anywhere near that which has been endemic in certain demographics of the UK for decades.
I have - was walking from Basel into St Lois this March and behind me a man carrying two large bags was stopped by the guards on duty there.
I thought that it was good for ID when travelling to Ireland.
I sometimes wonder about searching for my original ID card as I am just old enough to have been issued with one under the National Registration Act before it was replealed.
When travelling from Chiasso to Milano on the local Trenord train that starts at Chiasso about 2 or 3 years ago, I was asked for my passport and asked whether I was bringing in a large quantity of euro notes into Italy.
Before there was juxtaposed border controls around 1995, I lost my passport in France. At the ferry port in Calais I started to empty my bag, pretending to look for the passport, but they just told me to sort it out in Dover. At Dover, I explained to the border control that I couldn't find my passport but after about a minute of explaining where I lived and showing my university ID card, I was let into the UK. I doubt that would work today!
Before there was juxtaposed border controls around 1995, I lost my passport in France. At the ferry port in Calais I started to empty my bag, pretending to look for the passport, but they just told me to sort it out in Dover. At Dover, I explained to the border control that I couldn't find my passport but after about a minute of explaining where I lived and showing my university ID card, I was let into the UK. I doubt that would work today!
During the ash cloud crisis in 2010, we chartered a minicoach from Madrid to London. It was all hastily arranged, and the bus drivers were a little clueless (they'd never left Spain before, and were relying on turn-by-turn directions the office had printed!). One of them began to look a little sheepish as we neared the Shuttle terminal, and it emerged that he didn't own a passport, nor have any ID on him! Amazingly, the UK Border Guard was quite happy to let him in, on the promise that he would turn around immediately on dropping us at Heathrow.
TheSeeker
Member
Happened to be in Portugal during the ash cloud crisis. No return flights but luckily my father in law lent us his car and we drove back. Very odd to see convoys of Madrid Taxis on the autoroute approaching Paris.
Remember hearing a Croatian taxi all way to Calais ! Always thought taxis werent keen on crossing borders .
jamesontheroad
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Correct, I think that (either) they have an agreement with the Belgian authorities to check on their behalf, or there is no need for Belgian authorities to check as France is the first country of entry into the Schengen zone.
Yes, this is thanks to the U.K./R.o.I. Common Travel Area. It means most citizens need only “minimal” photo ID to cross the border, and most visas to enter the U.K. or Republic of Ireland are honoured by the other country.
This thread is about Eurostar - the Irish Border and Brexit is a completely different problem, one which is bound up in the intent and understanding of the Good Friday Agreement.
James James
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UK ID cards aren't valid documents anymore, I'd recommend not trying to use it either: https://www.gov.uk/identitycards
It's a real shame. The way the cards were implemented with the connected Database was blindingly stupid, but not having a credit-card sized form of ID (essentially a mini passport) is equally monumentally stupid and inconvenient. Not everyone wants to get a driver's licence, and the driver's licence is useless anytime you want to travel to Europe - even more so for British people living in Europe, who pretty much need to lug around a passport any time they need proof of age or identity.
Unrelated, but Schengen internal border checks are alive and well. France seems extremely intent on performing the checks, so I've gone through repeated border checks at Basel airport (which is dually Swiss and French), while travelling from Switzerland to Brussels. France is apparently forcing these checks to be done, the checks themselves are performed by a joint team of Swiss and French agents, for most Schengen flights.
jamesontheroad
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I appreciate I’m trying to shut the stable door long after the horse has bolted, but this is your periodic reminder that you don’t need to leave the EU (or even the Schengen Zone) to “take back control” (sic) of your borders.
Please Explain
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You flew from Basel to Brussel?! Seven hours on le Vauban too long?!
Are there still regular flights between the two cities now the direct trains are gone?
paddington
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People (such as US citizens) already spend hours going through UK immigration.
The UK and France have had mutual visa-free travel since 1947, long before even the ECSC (and visas/passports were only introduced in the first place because of the World Wars) so it would be a serious step backwards if this were to happen. The EU is introducing ETIAS which is likely to apply to British citizens if we actually leave the EU, and should generally make entry as tourists pretty smooth in the same way that Americans, Canadians, Japanese etc. generally have no issues entering Schengen quickly and can sometimes use the e-gates too.
Entry to the US takes longer because 1) immigration officers are also customs officers and they check everyone for both purposes, 2) a US visa is merely authority to travel to the US, and immigration officers decide whether to let you in when you present yourself at the point of entry, while a UK visa is authority to enter and immigration officers only need to make sure that you are the right person and that your circumstances are still valid, 3) the US makes transiting passengers enter the country fully.
It isn't a valid question. If the Belgian ID card was one that is issued to Belgian citizens, they still have freedom of movement with the UK, so they should not be asked any questions unless there is suspicion that they are a criminal. Except "where are you flying to" or "where have you arrived from" at airports. If it was a Belgian residence permit, then it seems even odder because those questions wouldn't suffice to determine whether the holder could enter the UK.
It would and does work today. Well, they are unlikely to just take your word for it, especially if you are an ethnic minority or have poor English skills / an obvious foreign accent, but they take you to a lit room where they may ask further questions in order to confirm your citizenship. They can check this using their databases. A driving licence can only help since it proves your name and address. Electoral roll and credit reference agency data is sometimes used.
If you aren't British and especially if not an EU citizen then good luck, but if you legally live in the UK you might still be allowed in depending on what they can find out about you, whether you have a believable story about losing your passport, etc.
The allowance is only for British and Irish citizens born in those countries.
Everyone born in the UK before 1983 is a British citizen, and everyone born on Ireland before 2005 is or can be an Irish citizen (unless their father was a foreign diplomat or they renounced their citizenship - but I guess the assumption is that such people are legally in the UK or Ireland already), so a DL with country of birth would prove citizenship in those cases. Otherwise just bring your passport to avoid hassle...
This is inaccurate. Strictly speaking, all non-EU citizens should seek out an immigration officer when arriving in the UK from the Republic of Ireland.
I appreciate I’m trying to shut the stable door long after the horse has bolted, but this is your periodic reminder that you don’t need to leave the EU (or even the Schengen Zone) to “take back control” (sic) of your borders.
People keep confusing freedom of movement with the removal of systematic passport checks. If you must admit all EEA citizens who present themselves at your border, then you don't exactly have control of your border. (Personally I support freedom of movement but that's beside the point.)
Is this right? It's a few years since I last visited the US, but you had to pass through a separate customs point after passing through immigration (and reclaiming baggage) and there was a separate customs form to fill in as well as the Visa Waiver form.
I flew alone from Vancouver - San Francisco a couple of years ago on a round trip. There's pre-clearance in Vancouver. There was just one check there for customs and immigration by CBP. Returned Seattle-Vancouver by Amtrak Cascades with just one check by CBSA on arrival in Vancouver station.
Both ways I was unfortunate enough to get pulled aside for the secondary inspection and ordered to surrender all my luggage, passport, etc for extra checks.
I guess the Eurostar terminal at the Gare du Nord may need some reconfiguration. At present, when you arrive off the Eurostar there, you simply walk straight off the platform. AFAIK that's how it's been since the start of Eurostar services in 1994. There are no facilities in place in case a passport check is needed on arrival, so I suppose passport and luggage checking facilities might have to be installed at the exit from the Eurostar platforms.
On the other hand, I think there are (or were until recently) still passport checking booths for disembarking passengers at Brussels Midi but they aren't normally used nowadays. It would probably be a fairly simple matter to bring them back into use if necessary, though.
Obviously, longer delays with passport checks on arrival in Paris and Brussels would mean having to allow longer for onward connections. Earlier this month I was on a Eurostar that was late arriving at Brussels, and only just made a tight 10-minute connection with an ICE to Cologne on which I was booked - if it were post-Brexit I might have to wait an hour until the next Thalys or even two hours until the next ICE!
If Brexit leads to a significant reduction in travel between the UK and mainland Europe, then I can see Eurostar service levels being reduced accordingly. Short of being withdrawn altogether, I suppose we could end up with no more than a token service, as in the early months of Eurostar. After all, there is a token train service between Finland and Russia, for example.
JonathanP
Member
We don't have to admit all EEA citizens. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/faq/index_en.htm
- In what circumstances can I, as an EU national, be refused entry into another EU country?
You can be refused entry into another European country if you present a serious threat to public policy, public security or public health. If this happens, you must be told why and how to appeal the decision.
As in the case of Geert Wilders.
Cloud Strife
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No, this only started in 2000. Before that, there were both entry and exit controls at Gare du Nord and Calais-Frethun.
St Pancras is already set up for incoming passport/customs controls, so that's not an issue. Gare du Nord is supposed to be rebuilt anyway, so it's very likely that it'll be planned to include entry passport checks there.
I went on Eurostar to Paris a few times in the mid to late 1990s, but I can't remember how it used to work in those days. I don't see how there would be room for exit controls at the platform exits where you currently walk straight off, so I presume in those days the platform exit doors were kept locked (as at St Pancras) and disembarking passengers had to go up into the terminal building via the lifts or moving walkways for the exit checks (in which case they would have had to segregate arriving and departing passengers).
James James
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CBSA and CBP share a lot of data, sounds like you may have been on a list then.
I'm afraid it is. They are border agents, they can ask you anything to ascertain your identity, even beyond the oddity of travelling "home" on a non-local ID. Even with "freedom of movement" you wouldn't have unlimited right to stay in the UK as a non-UK citizen, except within specific conditions - and border agents are well within their rights to verify that if they desire. (Clearly your answers were sufficient to not warrant further questioning, but an impostor could quickly get flustered when questioned about going "home".)
Some EU countries even have laws to the effect of requiring you to use your home-country ID - it's technically not legal to show non-polish ID to a polish border or government agent as a polish citizen (in practice it's rare, but not unknown, for this to be an issue).
There are 3 flights per day - 2 of those are on Brussels Airlines, providing connections to lots of places in the world, which is what I was doing. Seven hours would've had me miss my onwards connection to Oslo.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
People will still want to go to Paris even if they have to get an ESTA a like to do so. The EU isn't going to close its borders to the UK any more than it would stop people coming in from the US or Canada, say.
It's the Brussels service which I would see as being reduced, even if it so happens that Brussels is in my view the nicer of the two destinations!
duesselmartin
Established Member
I agree, there is a lot of EU staff travelling between Brussels and London.
Maybe Amsterdam services will be expanded to compensate or German destinations will be promoted
Passport controlls are already in place and a visa requirement is unlikely.
EU citizens living in the UK or UK citizens living in the EU who would be travelling home for the holidays is most likely only a small proportion.
Maybe Amsterdam services will be expanded to compensate or German destinations will be promoted
Passport controlls are already in place and a visa requirement is unlikely.
EU citizens living in the UK or UK citizens living in the EU who would be travelling home for the holidays is most likely only a small proportion.
Even now, the Brussels trains can have quite a few spare seats, in my limited experience of using the service. Hopefully there will still be a decent amount of Eurostar services there, as personally it is a better destination than Paris, and allows for various connections.
rpjs
Member
I wouldn't call the Finland-Russia trains "token". There's four daytime Allegro trains a day in both directions between Helsinki and St Petersburg and a daily sleeper in both directions between Helsinki and Moscow. Given the size of the potential market, that seems about right to me. Certainly the Allegro seemed well patronized when we took it to St Petersburg last September.
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