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Oldest railway terminus still in use

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Fawkes Cat

Fawkes Cat

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I don't think this has been answered here (a quick search didn't bring anything up), but what is the oldest railway terminus that is still in use?

I am thinking of where you would have to be so that if you were pretending to be Michael Portillo you could look at your (pretend) camera and say 'in a very real sense, this is where the railways started' (boards train and heads out, leaving pretend cameraman behind on platform awaiting next service).
 
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Fawkes Cat

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EM2 said:
Does it have to still be in use as a terminus?
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That's what I had in mind - so if it comes down to Liverpool Lime Street versus Manchester Liverpool Road (as I suspect it might, but I don't want to rely on my own lack of knowledge) I would expect the answer to be Lime Street because you can still travel by train from there. If there is an ex-terminus which is now a through station, that is interesting too.
 
yorksrob

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Of stations that we would recognise as being major terminals today, I believe London Bridge was the first, with the London - Greenwich railway opening in 1838 I think.
 
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Fawkes Cat said:
That's what I had in mind - so if it comes down to Liverpool Lime Street versus Manchester Liverpool Road (as I suspect it might, but I don't want to rely on my own lack of knowledge) I would expect the answer to be Lime Street because you can still travel by train from there. If there is an ex-terminus which is now a through station, that is interesting too.
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The Liverpool and Manchester didn't go to Lime Street until later, and the original Crown Street terminus no longer exists. I don't think any of the earlier railways had much in the way of stations, so I would suggest Manchester Liverpool Road as long as a museum with a bit of track (no longer connected to the main line) counts as being in use.

Otherwise would Curzon Street count after HS2, despite not being a passenger station for 150 years or so?
 
yorksrob

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Fawkes Cat said:
There's a whole thread waiting to happen over the meaning of the word 'major': I didn't mean this to be that thread...
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Well, I don't think that you can argue that London Bridge isn't a terminal.

And in terms of Liverpool, Crown Street is no longer a passenger terminal.
 
Fawkes Cat

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FWIW, so far of the two still operational stations quoted, Lime Street is shown in Wikipedia as starting in August 1836, and London Bridge as December 1836.
 
yorksrob

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Ianno87 said:
Platforms 10-15 of London Bridge are a terminal...but not part of the oldest part from Greenwich!
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I don't think it counts in this context, however, I think you will find that the London and Greenwich originally occupied the Southern part of the station, whilst the London and Croydon occupied the North. They swapped relatively early on for convenience.
 
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yorksrob said:
I don't think it counts in this context, however, I think you will find that the London and Greenwich originally occupied the Southern part of the station, whilst the London and Croydon occupied the North. They swapped relatively early on for convenience.
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Alan Jackson's book "London's Termini", published 1985 (2nd edition) says that the original London and Greenwich terminus lay, at that time, roughly where the then platforms 6 and 7 were; a plan in the book shows these to be the south side of the through section of the station. So it seems with both Victorian and more recent works there is nothing left of the original station.
 
yorksrob

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John Webb said:
Alan Jackson's book "London's Termini", published 1985 (2nd edition) says that the original London and Greenwich terminus lay, at that time, roughly where the then platforms 6 and 7 were; a plan in the book shows these to be the south side of the through section of the station. So it seems with both Victorian and more recent works there is nothing left of the original station.
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Does this thread specify how much of the original terminal has to be in use. I don't think so, but if it does, there is a whole new challenge !
 
Tunnel Bore

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yorksrob said:
Does this thread specify how much of the original terminal has to be in use. I don't think so, but if it does, there is a whole new challenge !
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London Bridge is still in part a terminus and the other part is through. The arches supporting the approach to the platforms and some of the platform length are still in use. I think London Bridge wins this.
 
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EM2 said:
Of course, Greenwich was a terminus and still exists, although it n no longer has that function.
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The London and Greenwich initially opened (in 1836) only between Deptford and Spa Road

Again, neither is a terminus any more (and Spa Road hasn't been a station since 1925)

Deptford has one early piece of infrastructure (1856 according to listed building info), the ramp built so that the first class passengers could be driven by carriage to platform level. it's recently been restored as 'the market yard'
 
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Peter Mugridge said:
Didn't Edge Hill open in 1830? Obviously no longer a terminus, though...
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The current Edge Hill station opened in 1836 as part of the scheme to route the L&M all the way to the city centre terminus at Lime Street and replaced the original which was a little further south on the Wapping Tunnel route. I have not been able to ascertain whether the two stations opened on the same date. It is quite possible that Edge Hill may have opened first and served as the de-facto terminus for a short period. Can anyone confirm/correct?

I have also been web-searching for information on the US Baltimore & Ohio Railroad which opened very soon after the L&M. It would appear that although the original site of the Baltimore terminus at Mount Clare remains as a rail-connected museum none of the original buildings have survived, the oldest dating from 1851. It seems unlikely that we will have to look outside this country for the answer to the OP's question.
 
EM2

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CatfordCat said:
The London and Greenwich initially opened (in 1836) only between Deptford and Spa Road

Again, neither is a terminus any more (and Spa Road hasn't been a station since 1925)

Deptford has one early piece of infrastructure (1856 according to listed building info), the ramp built so that the first class passengers could be driven by carriage to platform level. it's recently been restored as 'the market yard'
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All correct, but doesn't invalidate what I posted.
The current station at Greenwich was a terminus (from 1840 until 1878) but no longer is.
 
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Shaw S Hunter said:
The current Edge Hill station opened in 1836 as part of the scheme to route the L&M all the way to the city centre terminus at Lime Street and replaced the original which was a little further south on the Wapping Tunnel route. I have not been able to ascertain whether the two stations opened on the same date. It is quite possible that Edge Hill may have opened first and served as the de-facto terminus for a short period. Can anyone confirm/correct?

I have also been web-searching for information on the US Baltimore & Ohio Railroad which opened very soon after the L&M. It would appear that although the original site of the Baltimore terminus at Mount Clare remains as a rail-connected museum none of the original buildings have survived, the oldest dating from 1851. It seems unlikely that we will have to look outside this country for the answer to the OP's question.
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When Edge Hill was being 'refurbished' back in the 1970's - when all the full length canopies were taken down on the four platforms - a sign by British Rail stated that it was the worlds oldest still working railway station.
 
Fawkes Cat

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Ploughman said:
One terminus station that opened in 1832 and is still in use today as a railway terminus.

WHITBY
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- really? Wikipedia (So It Must Be True) suggests June 1835 (in one place) or 1836 (horsedrawn) elsewhere in the article. For a start, someone needs to make Wikipedia self-consistent - and correct it if there is evidence for 1832.

But June 1835 is earlier than London Bridge or Lime Street.
 
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Bevan Price

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Fawkes Cat said:
- really? Wikipedia (So It Must Be True) suggests June 1835 (in one place) or 1836 (horsedrawn) elsewhere in the article. For a start, someone needs to make Wikipedia self-consistent - and correct it if there is evidence for 1832.

But June 1835 is earlier than London Bridge or Lime Street.
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According to Michael Quick's book about stations, Whiby was rebuilt on a slightly different site in 1847.
Mr Quick also comments that, although it did not open fully until December 1836, there had been occasional trial passenger workings at London Bridge between June & November 1835.

There were also short-lived stations at Stratford Upon Avon (1833) & Ardrossan (1834), but it is not clear if they were on the same sites as existing stations. One of the earliest terminals - for a short time - was Darlington North Road, which saw some passenger services from 1825 - but was on a different site to the current (non-terminal) station.

So - Liverpool Lime Street has been in use for the longest continuous period, but London Bridge is technically the oldest, if you ignore the fact that the earliest part is no longer a terminus.
 
yorksrob

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This has certainly been a very interesting and enjoyable discussion.

I would suggest that even though the bit of London Bridge in question itself is no longer a bay platform, the area was always a terminal up until London Bridge became one unified station, and since the unified station has always, and continues to this day to act as a terminal, it should be the winner.
 
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