Question regarding sickness days and applying for a new job

Ciel · 26 Oct 2018

Hello.

I'm currently applying for a role as a train driver.

In my current employment, I have been sick quite a number of timres due to an ongoing chest infection from late 2017 till around march 2018 - I wasn't off the entire time. Just about a week every month or two.

The last time I was sick was march this year.

Can I be refused employment due to these sicknesses?

RailUK Forums

Gooner18 · 26 Oct 2018

That’s a though to answer , what stage are you at with your application?

Cesarcollie · 26 Oct 2018

Ciel said:
Hello.

I'm currently applying for a role as a train driver.

In my current employment, I have been sick quite a number of timres due to an ongoing chest infection from late 2017 till around march 2018 - I wasn't off the entire time. Just about a week every month or two.

The last time I was sick was march this year.

Can I be refused employment due to these sicknesses?

Attendance record will be part of any potential employer's assessment of your suitability. It's fair to say if two candidates ranked identically in every other respect, but one had a full attendance record and the other didn't, the former is more likely to be offered the position.

Gooner18 · 26 Oct 2018

Cesarcollie said:
Attendance record will be part of any potential employer's assessment of your suitability. It's fair to say if two candidates ranked identically in every other respect, but one had a full attendance record and the other didn't, the former is more likely to be offered the position.

When I done my day 2 assessments with the OPC for arriva , the gentleman running it said They only take on the top 1-2% how true that is I don’t know

Ciel · 26 Oct 2018

Gooner18 said:
That’s a though to answer , what stage are you at with your application?

Conditional offer stage.

Gooner18 said:
When I done my day 2 assessments with the OPC for arriva , the gentleman running it said They only take on the top 1-2% how true that is I don’t know

They can't check your sickness record until you get to conditional offer stage.

Cesarcollie said:
Attendance record will be part of any potential employer's assessment of your suitability. It's fair to say if two candidates ranked identically in every other respect, but one had a full attendance record and the other didn't, the former is more likely to be offered the position.

But I'm not so much against anybody at this point - I'm at conditional offer stage.

Gooner18 · 26 Oct 2018

Ciel said:
Conditional offer stage.

That’s brilliant, well done so, you’ve just got your medical , DBS and references to go.

Ciel · 26 Oct 2018

Gooner18 said:
That’s brilliant, well done so, you’ve just got your medical , DBS and references to go.

Yes, but will the references take into account my sickness record, and could my offer be withdrawn because of that?

Gooner18 · 27 Oct 2018

Ciel said:
Yes, but will the references take into account my sickness record, and could my offer be withdrawn because of that?

Any Company can withdraw a conditional offer if you don’t meet the standards they set.
Whether the TOC will who your offer is with I can’t say , I guess it’s a waiting game. Who are you going to be working for ?

Ciel · 27 Oct 2018

Gooner18 said:
Any Company can withdraw a conditional offer if you don’t meet the standards they set.
Whether the TOC will who your offer is with I can’t say , I guess it’s a waiting game. Who are you going to be working for ?

Scotrail

coxxy · 27 Oct 2018

I think as long as your references come back ok you should be fine. That said at your medical they will ask you about any time off sick etc in the last couple of years. Just be open with them and be honest. Chest infections can be a bugger to get rid of and anyone performing medicals will know that

whoosh · 27 Oct 2018

I did know someone who was rejected for a Trainee Driver rôle because their reference from their current employer (also railway) showed they had taken quite a lot of sick time off.
However, I believe it was general sickness rather than one issue which took time to shake off (which was the case with you). I don't know if this differentiation would be detailed on a reference.
The person concerned improved their sickness record and later did successfully became a Trainee Driver.

I suppose you'll just have to wait and see.

Ciel · 27 Oct 2018

whoosh said:
I did know someone who was rejected for a Trainee Driver rôle because their reference from their current employer (also railway) showed they had taken quite a lot of sick time off.
However, I believe it was general sickness rather than one issue which took time to shake off (which was the case with you). I don't know if this differentiation would be detailed on a reference.
The person concerned improved their sickness record and later did successfully became a Trainee Driver.

I suppose you'll just have to wait and see.

Do you remember how long ago this was? And what timeframe the rail company looked at?

In all honesty, I think it'll just show up as general sickness, since it's not legal to show personal medical info.

BallastMonkey · 27 Oct 2018

It might be better to just be honest with HR and inform them that you was battling with a ongoing chest infection between the set dates, at least then they wouldn't be surprised with how much sickness was taken off

Spankthemonkey · 27 Oct 2018

coxxy said:
I think as long as your references come back ok you should be fine. That said at your medical they will ask you about any time off sick etc in the last couple of years. Just be open with them and be honest. Chest infections can be a bugger to get rid of and anyone performing medicals will know that

Yes, be honest at the medical about it and hope your references arw okay. Very few people take the risk of mentioning anything negative in a reference (for risk of being sued). If it hasn't been an issue since March you'll be fine.

To be brutally honest, and I'm not sure what your last job was, but if I had someone who regularly took a week off every couple of months, unless they were extremely useful amd tricky to replace, I would be giving them a good reference to help them on their way!

Narom · 27 Oct 2018

It depends really in any role for any company.

A colleague I presently work with before I leave for NR wanted to transfer offices, doing exactly the same role just in a different town. They checked his record and had a fair few instances of sickness to rejected his transfer.

If you can however legitimately explain them, be honest and tell them.

dvdgrgsmt · 27 Oct 2018

Different TOC but when I had my medical I had to provide details of any periods of sickness in the last 2 calendar years and discuss them with the Doctor so that could work in your favour if its the same as a Doctor would be more understanding of how tricky a chest infection can be to shake.

ST · 27 Oct 2018

I was asked at my Medical for Northern whether I have had any sick absence in the last 12 months. As an employer I would certainly be asking about absences during references to check this was correct as do provided the information. Not sure how far back all TOCs/FOCs go though. Agree with the above posts....honesty is the best policy.

ST · 27 Oct 2018

Sharetrades said:
I was asked at my Medical for Northern whether I have had any sick absence in the last 12 months. As an employer I would certainly be asking about absences during references to check this was correct as do provided the information. Not sure how far back all TOCs/FOCs go though. Agree with the above posts....honesty is the best policy.

sorry....
should have read as I provided the information.......

sw1ller · 28 Oct 2018

Ciel said:
Can I be refused employment due to these sicknesses?

Yes..

NoOnesFool · 28 Oct 2018

whoosh said:
I did know someone who was rejected for a Trainee Driver rôle because their reference from their current employer (also railway) showed they had taken quite a lot of sick time off.
However, I believe it was general sickness rather than one issue which took time to shake off (which was the case with you). I don't know if this differentiation would be detailed on a reference.
The person concerned improved their sickness record and later did successfully became a Trainee Driver.

I suppose you'll just have to wait and see.

I thought referees generally just give employee strengths with references and the more blank spaces, the worse the employee? Someone told me (maybe on here) that employers avoid giving negative feedback in references, as if the report is in-acurate, the employee can sue the employer for 'Negligent Misstatement'. With closer regards to the OP, I'd imagine the TOC will ask him directly about his attendance anyway, as staff absence on the railway leaves little room fo redemption.

Gooner18 · 28 Oct 2018

NoOnesFool said:
I thought referees generally just give employee strengths with references and the more blank spaces, the worse the employee? Someone told me (maybe on here) that employers avoid giving negative feedback in references, as if the report is in-acurate, the employee can sue the employer for 'Negligent Misstatement'. With closer regards to the OP, I'd imagine the TOC will ask him directly about his attendance anyway, as staff absence on the railway leaves little room fo redemption.

I thought it was illegal to give a bad reference, if one is giving it has to be positive?
Also they can refuse to give a reference, which would be more or less saying don’t employ said person

Elwyn · 28 Oct 2018

It’s not illegal to give a bad reference. You can probably say anything you like provided it is accurate, fair and objective. If you were a dreadful employee whose time keeping was terrible, who failed to do tasks to the right standard and whose negligence caused the factory to burn down, then you can say that. Just it has to be accurate. Some may choose to duck saying that because of possible litigation but if it’s completely true and fair, that litigation should go nowhere. And there are ways of wording it cautiously with “in my opinion” and “appears to have…” being used, which hedge the issues, but leave the reader in no doubt about the qualities and skills the employee demonstrated.

I once read a reference for a prospective employee that said that the employer had found it difficult to assess the person’s qualities fully because they were absent on sick leave more then they were present at work, and had left after just a few months. Assuming that was truthful, I don’t see anything wrong in saying it.

You can refuse to provide a reference. No requirement to provide one at all. Some employers like the Civil Service have a policy of not commenting on ability. All they will say is that X worked for us from Y to Z dates. That is handy for them but obviously isn’t really a reference as most people understand it. But it’s perfectly legal.

ComUtoR · 28 Oct 2018

Gooner18 said:
I thought it was illegal to give a bad reference, if one is giving it has to be positive?

I have always wondered about this but after writing a couple it is very easy to word is as such that you can be very negative by being indirect :

"Mr X's sickness was above our employee average levels and contributed to their low attendance record. This was due to a repeated chest infection and Mr X was unable to attend work for : #weeks in the following months."

Also they can refuse to give a reference, which would be more or less saying don’t employ said person

You can give a reference simply stating :

"I can confirm that this Mr X worked here as a [insert role] for the period between X and Y"

Neither are positive but neither are negative. Simply stating the facts can be detrimental in a reference.

Narom · 28 Oct 2018

Elwyn said:
.
You can refuse to provide a reference. No requirement to provide one at all. Some employers like the Civil Service have a policy of not commenting on ability. All they will say is that X worked for us from Y to Z dates. That is handy for them but obviously isn’t really a reference as most people understand it. But it’s perfectly legal.

Yup. My current employers and my partner's current and two former employers all say they will only confirm that the member of staff worked for them, any sickness and what the title of their role was.

Managers may feel happy with providing a more personal one, but I know my managers are actively told by HR to pass it on to them to just give the bare minimum.

Gooner18 · 28 Oct 2018

Elwyn said:
It’s not illegal to give a bad reference. You can probably say anything you like provided it is accurate, fair and objective. If you were a dreadful employee whose time keeping was terrible, who failed to do tasks to the right standard and whose negligence caused the factory to burn down, then you can say that. Just it has to be accurate. Some may choose to duck saying that because of possible litigation but if it’s completely true and fair, that litigation should go nowhere. And there are ways of wording it cautiously with “in my opinion” and “appears to have…” being used, which hedge the issues, but leave the reader in no doubt about the qualities and skills the employee demonstrated.

I once read a reference for a prospective employee that said that the employer had found it difficult to assess the person’s qualities fully because they were absent on sick leave more then they were present at work, and had left after just a few months. Assuming that was truthful, I don’t see anything wrong in saying it.

You can refuse to provide a reference. No requirement to provide one at all. Some employers like the Civil Service have a policy of not commenting on ability. All they will say is that X worked for us from Y to Z dates. That is handy for them but obviously isn’t really a reference as most people understand it. But it’s perfectly legal.

Never knew that, cheers for the info

stevieoz · 28 Oct 2018

Did they not ask this as part of your application as they usually do?
If so then no problem unless you weren’t honest surely?
The information must be disclosed by your employer whether high or low attendance.

Ciel · 29 Oct 2018

stevieoz said:
Did they not ask this as part of your application as they usually do?
If so then no problem unless you weren’t honest surely?
The information must be disclosed by your employer whether high or low attendance.

No, at no point in the application form did the employer ask about my attendance.

kevconnor · 29 Oct 2018

Ciel said:
No, at no point in the application form did the employer ask about my attendance.

They’re not permitted to under the Equality Act. As has been noted it is only when a conditional offer is made that you can start to ask about sickness.

Even with a reference if it reports sickness context is key. I see examples where people have had poor absence records but may be due to a disability or pregnancy.

Best advise is that already provided to be open about it at your medical, if you had any gp diagnosis or prescription from the time make a note of it to bring it with you so you can show you were not swinging the led and were actively managing your condition.

MostlyHarmless · 29 Oct 2018

stevieoz said:
Did they not ask this as part of your application as they usually do?
If so then no problem unless you weren’t honest surely?
The information must be disclosed by your employer whether high or low attendance.

Employers aren't obliged to provide a reference full stop, let alone details of the employees attendance record. Many HR departments will simply confirm the person worked for them and the dates. I've had to do quite a number of references and I never mention sickness or attendance records simply because that information isn't available to me, and also if there is no context then then the information may be misleading.

The One · 29 Oct 2018

I’m sure you not allowed to give a bad reference you just can just refuse to give one.As for sickness if you been generally ill and Docs notes prove this then they can’t hold that against you as it’s not your fault you been ill with chest probs.On other flip of the coin you have every last Friday off a month just a eg lol then obviously there will be a pattern for them not to believe you.As the others said just be honest your better off being honest before they dig then ask you to explain Sure you be ok

Question regarding sickness days and applying for a new job

Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member