Why is Bristol Temple Meads so far from the city centre?

jednick · 1 Nov 2018

Excluding the special case of London, all other large UK cities have a station near the city centre.

Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, Hull, Leeds, Sheffield, Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, Nottingham, Leicester, Cardiff - They all have a station either right in the city centre, or very near the main shopping area, or not too far away. Except for Bristol.

So, what's the reason Bristol Temple Meads is so far from Bristol city centre?

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Smethwickian · 1 Nov 2018

Because the people who built it thought it would be more practical to put it alongside the railway line.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Bletchleyite · 1 Nov 2018

They aren't the only ones. The Midland seemed to like putting stations in the middle of nowhere, and then there's Chester too.

DarloRich · 1 Nov 2018

Because that is where the available land, finance, consents, geography, geology, topography and a whole host of other factors allowed for the station to be built.

LNW-GW Joint · 1 Nov 2018

Over the years, closures have put the railway further out of some town/city centres, eg Cheltenham and Blackpool.
Some of those listed by the OP are not really central either - Manchester's remaining stations are further away from the centre than Central was.
Admittedly the Metrolink system minimises the distance.
Derby Midland is quite a long way out (Friargate was closer), so is Exeter St David's.
Yeovil is another with stations well out of town.
A lot depends on how the town developed after the railway came - some spread out to make the station feel like it's central, when it wasn't originally.

Bletchleyite · 1 Nov 2018

And the centre shifts. Manchester Victoria used to be in a bit of a wasteland in the 1990s, but the centre has shifted back that way.

DarloRich · 1 Nov 2018

Bletchleyite said:
And the centre shifts. Manchester Victoria used to be in a bit of a wasteland in the 1990s, but the centre has shifted back that way.

agreed - also is Temple Meads not well situated for the commercial centre of the city at the time of construction; the docks?

Fawkes Cat · 1 Nov 2018

DarloRich said:
is Temple Meads not well situated for the commercial centre of the city at the time of construction; the docks?

Not really, no.

30 seconds googling has failed to come up with anything to support this, but it was always my understanding that when the city of Bristol enthusiastically supported the building of the GWR, the city fathers somewhat contradictorily also wanted to keep the nasty smelly trains out of the city centre - hence ending in the meadows ('meads') a mile down the road. This will also have limited the need for expensive urban clearance to get nearer to town.

As a side point, city centres do indeed move: at construction (and until post World War 2 rebuilding) Bristol's city centre for shopping as well as for business was around the High Street/Broad Street/Corn Street/Wine Street crossroads, which is somewhat closer to Temple Meads than either the current Broadmead shops or the (Tramway) Centre at the end of the Floating Harbour.

HowardGWR · 1 Nov 2018

People in 1840 did not use the train to go shopping or to work (real work, not sitting in offices) . The line was built to carry very wealthy people (the gentry) from Bristol to London and all of them had their own carrriages, or cabs, to take them from Clifton (where most lived) down to the station. Ditto businessmen in the Queens Square and Corn Street area. Ordinary folk had to travel in trucks and nobody cared how they got to the station.

That's why Paddington is nowhere near central London, either.

trebor79 · 1 Nov 2018

Quite a few of the London termini were in more or lessl open countryside when first constructed. The city has grown around them.

CptCharlee · 1 Nov 2018

Plymouth is another one that doesn't have a city centre station.

I find Temple Meads quite a simple walk to the centre only 5-10 mins

B&I · 1 Nov 2018

Are there any large English cities whose station is really right at its centre, rather than (at best) on om edge of the city centre ? Only ones I can think of, of the cities I've been to, are Portsmouth and Sunderland

tiptoptaff · 1 Nov 2018

HowardGWR said:
That's why Paddington is nowhere near central London, either.

Same goes for most of the major terminals in London.

Fawkes Cat · 1 Nov 2018

CptCharlee said:
I find Temple Meads quite a simple walk to the centre only 5-10 mins

Google maps reckons 17 minutes (taking the Grand Hotel in Broad Street as the city centre).

HowardGWR · 1 Nov 2018

Fawkes Cat said:
Google maps reckons 17 minutes (taking the Grand Hotel in Broad Street as the city centre).

Well, there's the Centre and the centre!

I have walked from the Cathedral on College Green to TM in 12 mins, without especially rushing. To Broad Street, one has to negotiate the great roundabout at the base of Temple Way /Victoria St, now being "de-roundabouted", and that could add a good 5 to 10 minutes to any pedestrian journey.

Steve Harris · 1 Nov 2018

Altfish said:
Cambridge

Is not in the City Centre, because....... when the railway came to town (as it was then), the university didn't want smelly, dirty trains in town. Therefore, restricted them to the outskirts (as they was then).

As a side note... Hanley is now considered the City Centre of Stoke on Trent which is Approx 2 miles from the original Stoke City Centre.

Therefore, either of the above (or something similar) could be the reason why Temple Meads is not in the City Centre.

Temple Meads · 1 Nov 2018

CptCharlee said:
Plymouth is another one that doesn't have a city centre station.

It's 5-10 minutes walk from the main shopping areas, so I'm not sure it counts.

61653 HTAFC · 1 Nov 2018

B&I said:
Are there any large English cities whose station is really right at its centre, rather than (at best) on om edge of the city centre ? Only ones I can think of, of the cities I've been to, are Portsmouth and Sunderland

(London) Charing Cross?

jednick · 1 Nov 2018

B&I said:
Are there any large English cities whose station is really right at its centre, rather than (at best) on om edge of the city centre ? Only ones I can think of, of the cities I've been to, are Portsmouth and Sunderland

Birmingham New Street and Liverpool Central are very close to their city centres. Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central as well.

Ianno87 · 1 Nov 2018

Steve Harris said:
Is not in the City Centre, because....... when the railway came to town (as it was then), the university didn't want smelly, dirty trains in town. Therefore, restricted them to the outskirts (as they was then).

Original plan was to be located on what is now Christ's Pieces. Very central.

[Also, the University didn't want students being tempted to travel for shenanigans in London all the time either]

jednick · 1 Nov 2018

Has Bristol Temple Meads always been the most centrally-located station for Bristol? (Rather than there once having been a station closer to the centre but it closed a long time ago).

Also, why does Bristol Temple Meads have such an elaborate name? Why was it never called just simply "Bristol"? (It can't be to differentiate it from Bristol Parkway, as that station has only been there a few decades).

bnm · 1 Nov 2018

HowardGWR said:
To Broad Street, one has to negotiate the great roundabout at the base of Temple Way /Victoria St, now being "de-roundabouted", and that could add a good 5 to 10 minutes to any pedestrian journey

One doesn't have to negotiate said roundabout. Far easier, less road traffic to deal with, and no time penalty, to take the Temple Quay exit from the station and walk along the river behind Temple Back to St Phillips Bridge. Cross there and then along the opposite bank, through Castle Park, and along Wine St to Broad St.

For Broadmead, again, exit the station to Temple Quay, cross the river on the footbridge to Glass Wharf, to Old Bread St and across the car park behind the Gardner Haskins Homecentre, through the arch onto Broad Plain, then the underpass to St Phillip & St Jacob Church ("Pip 'n Jay"), across the churchyard to Tower Hill and Lower Castle St, et voila, Broadmead.

Both those walks are traffic free for the majority of the journey, and avoid the Temple Way gyratory.

bnm · 1 Nov 2018

jednick said:
Has Bristol Temple Meads always been the most centrally-located station for Bristol? (Rather than there once having been a station closer to the centre but it closed a long time ago).

It has always been the closest station. The line was original a passenger terminus ("The Old Station"), although a freight line was later added extending the railway through Redcliffe to the docks. This was the Bristol Harbour Railway.

HowardGWR · 1 Nov 2018

jednick said:
Has Bristol Temple Meads always been the most centrally-located station for Bristol? (Rather than there once having been a station closer to the centre but it closed a long time ago).

Also, why does Bristol Temple Meads have such an elaborate name? Why was it never called just simply "Bristol"? (It can't be to differentiate it from Bristol Parkway, as that station has only been there a few decades).

Look up Bristol St Philips station (MR). Within 100 yards of Old Market that I always looked upon as the centre of Bristolian humanity in the 1950s. I know, difficult to believe now.

HowardGWR · 1 Nov 2018

bnm said:
One doesn't have to negotiate said roundabout. Far easier, less road traffic to deal with, and no time penalty, to take the Temple Quay exit from the station and walk along the river behind Temple Back to St Phillips Bridge. Cross there and then along the opposite bank, through Castle Park, and along Wine St to Broad St.

For Broadmead, again, exit the station to Temple Quay, cross the river on the footbridge to Glass Wharf, to Old Bread St and across the car park behind the Gardner Haskins Homecentre, through the arch onto Broad Plain, then the underpass to St Phillip & St Jacob Church ("Pip 'n Jay"), across the churchyard to Tower Hill and Lower Castle St, et voila, Broadmead.

Both those walks are traffic free for the majority of the journey, and avoid the Temple Way gyratory.

Good tips, although weren't available in my era (1950s). However, then, one could just walk up the street to Bristol Bridge with no deviation. By the way, I still regard Bristol Bridge as the centre of Bristol. I defy anyone to stand on it and not feel that to be culturally the case.

bnm · 1 Nov 2018

HowardGWR said:
Look up Bristol St Philips station (MR). Within 100 yards of Old Market that I always looked upon as the centre of Bristolian humanity in the 1950s. I know, difficult to believe now.

I'd completely forgotten about that station! Closer to Broadmead, but to the Centre? Whether that 'centre' is Bristol Bridge, Broad St or Tramways/Hippodrome.

Fawkes Cat · 1 Nov 2018

HowardGWR said:
I have walked from the Cathedral on College Green to TM in 12 mins, without especially rushing.

Google reckons 21 minutes for this, via the bridge over the floating harbour and Queen's Square.

HowardGWR said:
By the way, I still regard Bristol Bridge as the centre of Bristol.

And Google gives 13 minutes for this one, albeit by way of Victoria Street and therefore the Temple Way roundabout.

People walk at different speeds, and I've never tried systematically to check how realistic Google's pedestrian timings are. But from a quick sample of journeys that I do on foot fairly regularly, Google's timings seem to be pretty well spot on. You obviously walk (a lot) faster than I do.

dk1 · 1 Nov 2018

Altfish said:
Cambridge

Apart from the replies already posted, didn't the university or church think it would attract ladies of the night to frequent the city centre should the railway be too close?

route:oxford · 1 Nov 2018

Oxford.

GWR wanted the railway to come in through Iffley, out through Marston with the station being around The Plain. This would have been very central for both "Town" & "Gown"

Oxford Council were utterly terrified that the coming of the railway would devastate their road toll income, so forced the railway to the outer edge of the city.

GWR_Radley-Oxford_plan_1837_Parl_Archives_HL-PO-PB-3-plan215.JPG

The City has suffered as a consequence of that terrible failure of planning ever since.

Mintona · 1 Nov 2018

I’ve been working in Bristol for 5 years and have no idea where the city centre is. I know how to get from the M32 to Temple Meads station, and back again, and that’s about it. I presume there are more shops in Bristol beyond what is around Temple Meads but not sure where.

Why is Bristol Temple Meads so far from the city centre?

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