Why is Bristol Temple Meads so far from the city centre?

[Envoy]

I think they're planning a new arena right next to the station which should help to solve that.

No they are not as the Mayor wants it out at Filton. looks like blocks of flat are going to go up on the vacant land near Temple Meads.

 

[edwin_m]

Difficult to get round the cramped concourse issue given the listed status of Temple Meads. However there's a plan kicking around to break out the former eastern entrance at the far end of the subway and extend it back under the forecourt/concourse to serve the retored terminating platforms and exit into the new development to the north. As usual there's probably no funding to do this.

 

[yorksrob]

No they are not as the Mayor wants it out at Filton. looks like blocks of flat are going to go up on the vacant land near Temple Meads.

That's a shame. I can remember saying to my contact there what a good idea it was to put it next to public transport !

 

[sprunt]

Some of the people of Nottingham will tell you that they closed the wrong station when Victoria was closed!

Hindsight obviously, but it seems even worse now with the Broadmarsh bus station being closed.

 

[Llanigraham]

For it’s size and importance, it’s fairly rubbish - cramped, very few shops, congested tunnel linking to most platforms (especially 13/15 for the paddington trains) and massive queues at the handful of ticket barriers. Most London suburban commuter stations have more exit gates!

Isn't Temple Meads Grade 1 listed? If so there is very little that can be done to it.

 

[camflyer]

I think they're planning a new arena right next to the station which should help to solve that.

The new arena is welcome (and long overdue) but the danger is that the extra passengers it will just make Temple Meads even more cramped and overcrowded. Unfortunately due to the design of the station there isn't an obvious place to put an enlarged concourse unless you take a wrecking ball to a lot of Grade 1 listed stonework.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding stations in London being in the centre, I would like to mention St Paul's although it is part of the London Underground Central Line.

When I was investigating driving routes for a friend of mine a number of years back, I had input "Glasgow" and "London" on the AA (Automobile Association, not Alcoholics Anonymous) for directions. Being as these were generic terms, both ends used as the reference point were the former GPO buildings in George Square and St Paul's respectively.

A mainline station I am unsure as to whether it is central for the town is Weston-Super-Mare. Although it could be said that it is quite a hike to see the sea there

For major cities such as Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, etc, a rule of thumb that could be used as to determine whether it is a central location or not is to check if the postcode of the station falls between 1 to 5. For example, Glasgow Central, High Street, and Argyle Street are G1, Anderston Cross, Charing Cross, and Glasgow Queen Street are G2, and Bellgrove is G4 (although borderline East Central, as continuing east of Bellgrove you would switch to G31).

 

[B&I]

Leeds is smack in the the centre, a short stroll up to the financial district of Leeds, Trinity Shopping Centre across the road and with the new development on The South Bank (possibly where channel 4 are moving but not too sure) its pretty much central. That said its not very central for the Uni's or the Market area.

Like New Street, it's one of the stations which is on one side of the city centre. In both cases, the area south of the stations aren't really part of the city centre yet, although that may change with time

 

[ooo]

For it’s size and importance, it’s fairly rubbish - cramped, very few shops, congested tunnel linking to most platforms (especially 13/15 for the paddington trains) and massive queues at the handful of ticket barriers. Most London suburban commuter stations have more exit gates!

Two new sets of barriers are opening next month

 

[Bletchleyite]

The new arena is welcome (and long overdue) but the danger is that the extra passengers it will just make Temple Meads even more cramped and overcrowded. Unfortunately due to the design of the station there isn't an obvious place to put an enlarged concourse unless you take a wrecking ball to a lot of Grade 1 listed stonework.

There is - the old Brunel trainshed. It's presently an events venue, but I'm sure the lease could be bought out. It could make an excellent "food hall" type place, similar to the way the old concourse at Leeds was converted.

 

[edwin_m]

If the platforms in the old trainshed were reinstated, would they have to go back as far as the Brunel part to provide enough length for 2x5-car 80x?

 

[HowardGWR]

If the platforms in the old trainshed were reinstated, would they have to go back as far as the Brunel part to provide enough length for 2x5-car 80x?

I would say so. The old LMR trains to the north, typically 12 mark 1s, took up most of what was two platforms, originally numbered 12 and 13, 13 being the Brunel bit.

Edit: One could make the original bit the concourse and the platforms, if I am wrong about the above, could be extended outwards, as the Redcliffe dockyard lines are no longer coming in from behind the old station to prevent that.

However, the plans that I've seen, have the new concourse on that outside car park, where those lines were.

 

[camflyer]

There is - the old Brunel trainshed. It's presently an events venue, but I'm sure the lease could be bought out. It could make an excellent "food hall" type place, similar to the way the old concourse at Leeds was converted.

Duh - of course, I was ignoring the really, really, obvious location.

 

[kaiser62]

Regarding stations in London being in the centre, I would like to mention St Paul's although it is part of the London Underground Central Line.

When I was investigating driving routes for a friend of mine a number of years back, I had input "Glasgow" and "London" on the AA (Automobile Association, not Alcoholics Anonymous) for directions. Being as these were generic terms, both ends used as the reference point were the former GPO buildings in George Square and St Paul's respectively.

A mainline station I am unsure as to whether it is central for the town is Weston-Super-Mare. Although it could be said that it is quite a hike to see the sea there

For major cities such as Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, etc, a rule of thumb that could be used as to determine whether it is a central location or not is to check if the postcode of the station falls between 1 to 5. For example, Glasgow Central, High Street, and Argyle Street are G1, Anderston Cross, Charing Cross, and Glasgow Queen Street are G2, and Bellgrove is G4 (although borderline East Central, as continuing east of Bellgrove you would switch to G31).

That's because geographic information systems use the Post Office's Postal Address File (PAF) to get a grid reference for calculating distances. Unsurprisingly, the Post Office thinks the centre of a town/city is the main office. As it's their file that's not totally unreasonable.

 

[Fearless]

When Brunel was planning the Bristol station he was prevented by the City Fathers from building it within the city walls, so he chose the closest spot he could. It's in the Temple area of Bristol, which was established by the Knights Templars way back (go visit Temple Church with its leaning tower - who needs Pisa!). The fields ('meads') in that area were very marshy, as witnessed still in the name of St Philips Marsh. Apparently it was the opening of the St Philips station in 1870 that led to Temple Meads needing to be distinguished from other stations - see my post on the 'Historical' forum where I asked about the name and was given this information by a fellow forum user.

As for the Arena, words fail me. Just about everyone voted in favour of the Temple Meads site (where the old Bath Road depot stood) but one man had the power to overrule that vote. It's a tragedy that will result in huge potential loss of income for the city.

 

[yorksrob]

The new arena is welcome (and long overdue) but the danger is that the extra passengers it will just make Temple Meads even more cramped and overcrowded. Unfortunately due to the design of the station there isn't an obvious place to put an enlarged concourse unless you take a wrecking ball to a lot of Grade 1 listed stonework.

Given that arena's usually chuck out in the evening, perhaps their busy times might dovetail with the existing peak.

In Leeds we have a wonderful new arena, but its a bit of a trek down to the station if you're rushing for a last train.

 

[johnnychips]

I know not a few Bristolians who, on reading that, would say, 'good, we've too many incomers as it is'!

Bristolians would actually say, “no, that’s a bad ideal.”

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Regarding stations in London being in the centre, I would like to mention St Paul's although it is part of the London Underground Central Line.

When I was investigating driving routes for a friend of mine a number of years back, I had input "Glasgow" and "London" on the AA (Automobile Association, not Alcoholics Anonymous) for directions. Being as these were generic terms, both ends used as the reference point were the former GPO buildings in George Square and St Paul's respectively.

A mainline station I am unsure as to whether it is central for the town is Weston-Super-Mare. Although it could be said that it is quite a hike to see the sea there

For major cities such as Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, etc, a rule of thumb that could be used as to determine whether it is a central location or not is to check if the postcode of the station falls between 1 to 5. For example, Glasgow Central, High Street, and Argyle Street are G1, Anderston Cross, Charing Cross, and Glasgow Queen Street are G2, and Bellgrove is G4 (although borderline East Central, as continuing east of Bellgrove you would switch to G31).

You'll be hard pushed to beat Charing Cross, for it's the point to which all distances to London are measured. All road signs saying LONDON XX MILES are giving you the distance to Charing Cross.

Bigger cities have a much more loosely defined centre anyway. Birmingham's three main stations all feel very central to me, especially New Street, but you can't really exit any of them and not feel like you are in the thick of it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You'll be hard pushed to beat Charing Cross, for it's the point to which all distances to London are measured. All road signs saying LONDON XX MILES are giving you the distance to Charing Cross.

Bigger cities have a much more loosely defined centre anyway. Birmingham's three main stations all feel very central to me, especially New Street, but you can't really exit any of them and not feel like you are in the thick of it.

I'd agree about New St and Snow Hill, but Moor St, despite being very near New St, feels like it's very much on the periphery.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The busy roads out front cut it off slightly but Moor Street station is a literal stones throw arguably the most recognisable building in Birmingham, the Bullring. In ten years time when HS2 opens I'd imagine Moor Street will feel even more central as the land beside it which has been held back for redevelopment will be full of shiny new buildings and lots of people.

 

[route101]

I wish there was an M&S Simply Food and a couple of fast food restaurants. It’s Upper Crust, WH Smith, Starbucks and a pasty shop, plus a ‘pub’ with poor food, which is pretty rubbish compared with the likes of comparable stations at Reading and Birmingham New St.

Yeah , i thought that too ! Only WHS smith was open on a Sunday morn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The busy roads out front cut it off slightly but Moor Street station is a literal stones throw arguably the most recognisable building in Birmingham, the Bullring. In ten years time when HS2 opens I'd imagine Moor Street will feel even more central as the land beside it which has been held back for redevelopment will be full of shiny new buildings and lots of people.

Yes, I'd imagine with HS2 the centre will grow and shift towards Moor St and Curzon St.

Manchester has done something similar - for (post-industrial) years Vic was basically in a wasteland with little more than the Co-op to keep it company - then came the Nynex/MEN/Manchester Arena, the Printworks, more offices etc and that's much less the case than it was.

 

[richw]

Plymouth is another one that doesn't have a city centre station.

Umm Plymouth is pretty close to the city centre. Out of the station and across the roundabout under the subway and your there!

 

[Midnight Sun]

Weirdly Poole (I know not a huge city/town) is hilarious, the train line cuts through the centre of the high st with a level crossing, then dumps passengers another 800m along the line well out from the centre

No it does not, the end of the platforms are less than 100m from the level crossing. Sterte Road bridge is about 800m down the line from the crossing heading towards Weymouth. Going towards london you would be passing the southwest corner of the boating lake. It takes only two minutes to walk from the station to the level crossing

 

[S-Bahn]

It really is a mixed bag when it comes to where the city/town's station was built, which in the UK's case is tied up with the politics of the 19th century.

It isn't so much of a problem if the Intercity station is outside the main centre or CBD, as long as there is a transport network that provides you with easy access e.g. Exeter St Davids and Exeter Central, London and the tube network, Manchester and it's tram network.

Bristol TM is fortunately close to the new office developments, but for everything else you are dependant on an Uber/bus for accessibility. I would be interested to see when the Filton Bank 4-tracking is complete if commuting in from Newport and Severn Tunnel Junction becomes the preferred option to living in parts of Bristol.

 

[SoccerHQ]

It's about the same length as getting to Derby Town centre from that station. Someone mentioned Leicester as a central station but from my experience if you want to go to the main shopping bit (forget it's name) it's a good 10 minute walk as it's up at the far end of the town centre. Same for Nottingham if you want to go to the Victoria station and even Manchester with the Arndale centre (if you don't want to use the tram or free bus).

I wouldn't say Bristol is that bad. After going through the gates and walk straight ahead you're already in the C.B.D which has a spoons and a few shops/cafes. Five more minutes and over the Avon and you're at Cabot Circus.

Think the issue here is the railway runs circular around the centre. You could try getting off at Bedminster but again it's a good 10-15 minute walk (probably quicker to walk back to Temple Meads from there than reach the centre) and Montpellier is also a similar trek.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Yes, I'd imagine with HS2 the centre will grow and shift towards Moor St and Curzon St.

Manchester has done something similar - for (post-industrial) years Vic was basically in a wasteland with little more than the Co-op to keep it company - then came the Nynex/MEN/Manchester Arena, the Printworks, more offices etc and that's much less the case than it was.

It's already happening really. At the turn of the century they built Millennium Point which is where the science museum and an IMAX cinema were located but it always felt a bit removed from the city as the ground between there and the Bullring was largely filled with trunk roads, derelict warehouses and waste land. The roads got rerouted and in the past five years or so there has been a new park (Eastside City Park) built alongside Millennium Point and adjacent to where the HS2 station will sit, then further down Curzon Street pretty much the entire campus of the University of Central England got relocated from Perry Barr and almost connected up with Aston University so that area is now full of new buildings and has a large student population who are walking distance from the commercial centre of Birmingham. It's lacking a bit in night life I guess but even that 'problem' is being solved by the influx of new people gravitating towards Digbeth, which is the area immediately behind Moor Street station. HS2 kinda fits into the centre of this quarter and will probably be one of the finishing touches to it all rather than the catalyst to a whole new wave of expansion. Once the tram is running through the park and into Digbeth I'd wager that new visitors to Birmingham might think that the area has always been part of the city centre. All of this will make New Street feel even more central too I guess, as did the recent rebuild of the station which made it possible to access the streets to the south of the station without having to practically do a lap of the building.

 

[Busaholic]

The wide-open layout of central Plymouth, and those underpasses you have to negotiate, makes it feel longer

Not forgetting all those cyclists that are not only allowed to share the pavements but seem to resent the presence of pedestrians. I used to do the walk on a weekly basis in the evenings and it was one of the reasons why I bought a car, the lousy train service being the other.

 

[SoccerHQ]

It's already happening really. At the turn of the century they built Millennium Point which is where the science museum and an IMAX cinema were located but it always felt a bit removed from the city as the ground between there and the Bullring was largely filled with trunk roads, derelict warehouses and waste land. The roads got rerouted and in the past five years or so there has been a new park (Eastside City Park) built alongside Millennium Point and adjacent to where the HS2 station will sit, then further down Curzon Street pretty much the entire campus of the University of Central England got relocated from Perry Barr and almost connected up with Aston University so that area is now full of new buildings and has a large student population who are walking distance from the commercial centre of Birmingham. It's lacking a bit in night life I guess but even that 'problem' is being solved by the influx of new people gravitating towards Digbeth, which is the area immediately behind Moor Street station. HS2 kinda fits into the centre of this quarter and will probably be one of the finishing touches to it all rather than the catalyst to a whole new wave of expansion. Once the tram is running through the park and into Digbeth I'd wager that new visitors to Birmingham might think that the area has always been part of the city centre. All of this will make New Street feel even more central too I guess, as did the recent rebuild of the station which made it possible to access the streets to the south of the station without having to practically do a lap of the building.

Yep all good points. You've also got the UCE recently moving up to Aston University so with a few more halls of residence that part is a proper Student village now which will also change perceptions.

If you want shopping in Brum then Moor street and New Street are the stations to alight from. Pubs and it's Snow Hill that's the better bet (few city centre ones and the Jewellery Quarter).

 

[NorthernSpirit]

To me Bristol's city centre is from where the Watershed is to where Cabot Circus is and on the north western side of Bristol Bridge - sort of banana shaped.

Others have suggested walking it which, depending on your fitness ranges from 10 to 20 minutes or there is the Temple Meads Connection.

A mainline station I am unsure as to whether it is central for the town is Weston-Super-Mare. Although it could be said that it is quite a hike to see the sea there

Looking at both Weston and Southport, both stations are a fair trek from the sea.