Barry Scrapyard - Steam Locomotive Graveyard.

Robin Edwards · 16 Sep 2018

Interestingly, D6122 ended it's days at Woodhams but one of the cabs weathered to show the number D6121 - there are reports out there that show the works plates recovered from Woodhams came from the latter locomotive D6121 so maybe a swapped identity somewhere along the line? Happy to be corrected if I have remembered this wrongly?

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The_Engineer · 16 Sep 2018

D601, my only shot (Kodak Instamatic!!)

33017 · 16 Sep 2018

Robin Edwards said:
Interestingly, D6122 ended it's days at Woodhams but one of the cabs weathered to show the number D6121 - there are reports out there that show the works plates recovered from Woodhams came from the latter locomotive D6121 so maybe a swapped identity somewhere along the line? Happy to be corrected if I have remembered this wrongly?

You've remembered correctly. It's almost beyond doubt they swapped identities around 1964.

Excellent article here: https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/diesels/loco.htm?id=diesels/D6121

70014IronDuke · 16 Sep 2018

Robin Edwards said:
.. For me, the greatest shame is that D6122 and D601 Ark Royal were not saved. They too were scrapped in 1980.

You may have strong emotional reasons for lamenting the loss of these two locos, but as representative of how not to design and build diesels - at least not in the late 50s - you could not find much better examples (except, perhaps, the Metro-Vics and D84xx.)

Alas, NBL's prowess as a steam locomotive manufacturer did not transfer to either diesel or electric machines.

EbbwJunction1 · 16 Sep 2018

I believe that Robin Edwards is right when he says: 'In 1980 two steam engines were cut at Barry, GWR pannier 4156 and 9F 92085 although some parts of the latter I know still exist on other locomotives that are running.'

As far as I can recall, these two locos had to be cut up because they were falling apart and were a serious health hazard. We have to remember that we didn't know then what we know now about asbestos, and I seem to remember that there were a few locos with the asbestos lining on the boiler completely exposed and therefore very dangerous to be near.

I cant's be certain, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if 4156 and 92085 fell into that category. In fact, relying on my memory and seeing photos, it's surprising that there weren't more locos cut up on these grounds.

Robin Edwards · 17 Sep 2018

Quoting from Blake & Nicholson for 1980 : "Not a particularly good year if based on the number of locomotives leaving the yard, although the number actually paid for during this twelve months is 18.
In spite of all attempts cutting recommences, the supply of wagons having 'dried up', so parties interested in No 4156 were advised that it would be cut up if not purchased immediately. In a letter dated 18th July Day Woodham states 'this week we have completed cutting up the first locomotive which was an unreserved 9F - we will be cutting up No 4156 next week but retaining the spare parts that are marked - we will not be cutting No 3862 which will be shunted to one side.....' No 35025 was next in line after the prairie, but before this happened the workforce's annual holidays intervened and on their return, more wagons had arrived." (Scrap value of a tender-less Merchant Navy in 1980 was £7000)

I don't believe 92085 or 4156 exposed more risk than any other locomotives present in the yard in 1980, some of which had been damaged from cutting of wheel sets due to shunting derailments and many that will have exposed boiler lagging. I would have therefore thought thats selection was made on their position in the yard and what serious offers to purchase were on the table at the time.

I also agree that NB diesels were not of high status in terms of their performance and the legacy they left on the development from Steam to Diesel traction however, as historical artefacts I believe there was a place for them in preservation. Considering that D5705 is being restored and rebuilds of a baby Deltic is advancing along with plans for a rebuild of an early prototype, quality of design in my mind is not the only reason we should want to preserve history.

Robin Edwards · 17 Sep 2018

9F 92085 with Prairie 4156 awaiting cutting on 22nd June 1980

Robin Edwards · 17 Sep 2018

and here is a better view of the GWR Prairie No 4156 which doesn't show exposed asbestos as many did at the time.

EbbwJunction1 · 17 Sep 2018

Thanks, that's interesting.

Roger100 · 18 Sep 2018

I don't have an image of 4156, but here's 4150 taken in Barry about 1973 or 4. I think its at SVR undergoing a very slow restoration. The 6100 prairie tanks which ran the stopping trains out of Paddington in my youth were very similar but with a higher boiler pressure.

Roger100 · 18 Sep 2018

Among my few and very poor shots is this one, a nice shiny blue colour these days. Taken 1973/4.

Robin Edwards · 18 Sep 2018

from my reckoning, these are the locomotive that were purchased from Woodhams that have yet to steam again - top 10 only in terms of ascending order and date they left the yard :

1 - 7027 Thornbury Castle - bought for spares in August 1972 and now to be fully restored at Tyseley
2 - 35029 Ellerman Lines - January 1974 and one that we know won't steam again
3 - 4942 (2999) Maindy Hall (Lady of Legend) - April 1974 and soon to return in it's new guise as a saint
4 - GWR 7202 - April 1974 & under restoration at Didcot
5 - GWR 4150 - May 1974 - SVR & don't think this has steamed so far?
6 - 6989 Wightwick Hall - January 1978 and due to return soon from Buckinghamshire Railway Centre
7 - 264T 80100
8/9 - 060PT 3612 went for spares at SVR in December 1978 so won't return leaving GWR Prairie 4110 at WSR leaving for Southall in May 1979
10 - Ivatt 46428 left October 1979 as a source of spares but later passing to ELR to be restored

Happy to be corrected if I have made any errors or omissions

Roger100 · 19 Sep 2018

GWR 5227 was removed from Barry after Dai Woodham died. It's now at Didcot but I believe there are no plans for restoration. Parts have been removed to build 4709, but otherwise it's on display in Barry condition.

Train wasp · 22 Sep 2018

geoffk said:
I and many others wandered round the yard in the late 1960s and 70s. Wouldn't be allowed now though, with security fences everywhere. 9F 92085, GWR prairie tank 4156 and the two North British diesels - D601 and D6122 - were scrapped in 1980. I was told that this was because the supply of wagons for breaking had dried up, but a new supply of wagons meant a reprieve for the remaining steam locos.

Only two other locos were scrapped after the 1960s at Woodham’s Those being 76080 April 1972 and 3817 March 1973.

Edders23 · 22 Sep 2018

Steam loco said:
It's a shame those two were cut up but the waggons dried up so to keep people in business that cut them up unfortunately should have just cut the diesels up

Both diesels were the last surviving members of their class so it would have been better to cut up locos of which some of the class were preserved thus increasing the variety of locos available to see and ride behind

Flying Phil · 23 Sep 2018

Edders23 said:
Both diesels were the last surviving members of their class so it would have been better to cut up locos of which some of the class were preserved thus increasing the variety of locos available to see and ride behind

I know that in the 1960/70/80's it was hard enough to raise money for steam locomotive preservation - diesel was still regarded, by many, with no affection at all, so "preserved diesel" was a virtual non starter. Obviously the situation has changed now.

sliportion · 10 Dec 2018

So a scrap merchant found space to save 200 engines while the BTC in c1953 couldn't be bothered to save the last Saint because: 'they had nowhere to keep it'.

HaggisBotherer · 11 Dec 2018

Robin Edwards said:
For me, the greatest shame is that D6122 and D601 Ark Royal were not saved. They too were scrapped in 1980.

Edders23 said:
Both diesels were the last surviving members of their class so it would have been better to cut up locos of which some of the class were preserved thus increasing the variety of locos available to see and ride behind

We have two unique diesels - in the form of D5705 and D8233 - that have been 'saved', but both are completely reliant on a tiny team of very dedicated individuals who are slowly but surely restoring them to working order. How about get involved with those unique diesels that have escaped the cutter's touch, so that they can be seen and ridden behind, rather than lamenting those that didn't? Just a thought

Flying Phil said:
..so yes -thankfully - he did save the majority of Britain's preserved steam locomotives.

I disagree. He didn't 'save' them, he didn't dispose of them. There's a difference.

sliportion said:
So a scrap merchant found space to save 200 engines while the BTC in c1953 couldn't be bothered to save the last Saint because: 'they had nowhere to keep it'.

This was the 1950s and the BTC was trying to appear modern and forward-looking, which was the predominant mindset of a society collectively very keen to move on from the privations of two world wars within a generation. It wasn't a case of couldn't be bothered, it was a case of wanting to be seen to disassociate itself with a past that seemed old-fashioned and that people wanted to escape from.
In 1953 the Saints were 40-50 years old, not over 100 years old as they are now. To use a contemporary analogy, what would your thoughts be about saving a Class 56 now, if there was only one left and you had the chance?

Flying Phil · 11 Dec 2018

I disagree. He didn't 'save' them, he didn't dispose of them. There's a difference.

True......but the result was the same......

EbbwJunction1 · 11 Dec 2018

Flying Phil said:
I di sagree. He didn't 'save' them, he didn't dispose of them. There's a difference.
True......but the result was the same......

Yes, the result was the same, but the intention behind the action was different.

I went to a talk by Roger Hardingham, the author of several books on Barry Scrapyard and a member of a group that saved several Southern Railway engines last week. He got to know Dai Woodham well, and without prompting, backed up my view that the saving of so many engines was totally due to the size of the wagon breaking contracts.

We've covered elsewhere on this thread what happened when the wagon breaking contract temporarily dried up in the 1980s. Roger said that they were very concerned about what was going to happen at that time, but fortunately more wagon breaking contracts were obtained and the loco breaking stopped.

oversteer · 11 Dec 2018

A timely bump, because ex-Barry alumni 6989 "Wightwick Hall" is back in steam today after 40 years of restoration at Bucks Rail Centre

Don't see anything outside Facebook, but some pics + videos on the Bucks Rail Centre page: https://www.facebook.com/BucksRailCentre

Bevan Price · 11 Dec 2018

Robin Edwards said:
I also agree that NB diesels were not of high status in terms of their performance and the legacy they left on the development from Steam to Diesel traction however, as historical artefacts I believe there was a place for them in preservation. Considering that D5705 is being restored and rebuilds of a baby Deltic is advancing along with plans for a rebuild of an early prototype, quality of design in my mind is not the only reason we should want to preserve history.

I recall that someone tried to start a movement to preserve D601, but gave up because they presumably realised they would never raise enough money to buy it.

sprinterguy · 11 Dec 2018

oversteer said:
A timely bump, because ex-Barry alumni 6989 "Wightwick Hall" is back in steam today after 40 years of restoration at Bucks Rail Centre

Don't see anything outside Facebook, but some pics + videos on the Bucks Rail Centre page: https://www.facebook.com/BucksRailCentre

Well isn't that a heartwarming thing to see - Back in steam after four decades.

Quite something when you compare the video from today with the picture of the loco in scrapyard condition in 1978! And the 150th ex-Barry loco to be restored, if the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre's post is correct.

Cowley · 11 Dec 2018

sprinterguy said:
Well isn't that a heartwarming thing to see - Back in steam after four decades. Quite something when you compare the video from today with the picture of the loco in scrapyard condition in 1978! And the 150th ex-Barry loco to be restored, if the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre's post is correct.

Definitely, great to see a machine that’s never worked in my lifetime come back.
Looks lovely with the early BR crest.

reddragon · 12 Dec 2018

Bevan Price said:
I recall that someone tried to start a movement to preserve D601, but gave up because they presumably realised they would never raise enough money to buy it.

A loco that never worked at all well even when new was never going to make a good preservation project was it, the same with the dud class 21 there!

HaggisBotherer · 12 Dec 2018

reddragon said:
A loco that never worked at all well even when new was never going to make a good preservation project was it, the same with the dud class 21 there!

If that's true, how come D8568 did perfectly well in industrial service and subsequent preservation...?

reddragon · 12 Dec 2018

HaggisBotherer said:
If that's true, how come D8568 did perfectly well in industrial service and subsequent preservation...?

The NBL locos such as class 21/41 were so unreliable, that availability was down to 20% at times, and some hardly ever pulled a train.

The class 17 was just not as reliable / powerful as a 20 so was made redundant. It still worked well enough for industrial use.

Bedpan · 12 Dec 2018

reddragon said:
A loco that never worked at all well even when new was never going to make a good preservation project was it, the same with the dud class 21 there!

Maybe some people said the same thing about 71000 Duke of Gloucester.

martian boy · 13 Dec 2018

The two diesels cut up in 1980. Let’s all remember that the diesel preservation movement was not has strong then has it is now. People did not have the ‘spare cash’ that seems to be available now. Remember, mainline steam had largely disappeared less than twenty years previously. Depending where you were living, just twelve.

If they had serviced another five or six years, they may have been preserved has static exhibits.

Also, an entire generation or two, have grown up only knowing diesel and electric traction. For those who grew up with steam, diesels and electrics, where the work of the Devil.

Many years ago, about the time these were cut up, there was an article in Steam Railway called Damn Those Diesels. If I remember, it was about people’s reactions to persevere diesels on then called preserved railways.

ALAN BYRNE · 13 Dec 2018

I remember that article, and the attempt to save D601 (thankfully, I managed to see her twice before she was cut); such a shame it never came about, but I also remember the almost total bias against diesels, even then!

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