Thameslink Skipping London Bridge at Night

Planning a trip to get to Luton Airport overnight to catch an early morning flight... I just discovered that the overnight Thameslink trains don't stop at London Bridge! The last Northbound one that does appears to be the 23:35 to Bedford. As far as I can make out, everything after that runs non-stop from East Croydon to Blackfriars.

What's the rationale behind this? The last SouthEastern trains into London Bridge arrive later than that, so having later trains skip London Bridge means it's impossible to connect from the last SouthEastern trains to get onto Thameslink. The overnight trains also skip City Thameslink (perhaps understandable given the short walking distance to Blackfriars) and - less understandably - Farringdon.

Checking the London Bridge station opening times, it appears that the ticket office remains open until 1am, so it looks like the station is open long enough for at least two further Thameslink trains to stop there (the ones that get to Blackfriars at 00:22 and 00:50, perhaps even the 01:06) - that would enable late night connections on incoming trains from SouthEast London and Kent.

So what's the point not stopping those trains at London Bridge? Seems like a needless inconvenience to passengers. (And in my case, it means I'm either going to have to leave earlier than I intended and spend longer twiddling my thumbs overnight at Luton Airport, or walk from Cannon Street to Blackfriars).

On a related, but more amusing note... It's well worth checking the National Rail journey planner to see what advice it offers to get from London Bridge to Blackfriars overnight... The recommended route appears to be to walk to St. Pancras and get a train from there to Blackfriars!

Umm. Yeah. Definitely going for that one!

It's to allow them to divert via either Crystal Palace or Selhurst if there's engineering work.

GW43125 said:

It's to allow them to divert via either Crystal Palace or Selhurst if there's engineering work.

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None of them seem to go via Crystal Palace any more - they all go via Streatham. There are a few empty workings via Crystal Palace but nothing in service. Are Bedford / Brighton Thameslink drivers retaining knowledge via Crystal Palace?

(From my experience on Friday night the signallers are keen on putting trains running early from Victoria in front of the Thameslink services as well causing delay to them.

9W17 2245 Bedford to Brighton delayed at Selhurst when 1T00 0008 London Victoria to Gatwick Airport was put in front (breaking the connection at East Croydon for Redhill). 9W19 2305 Bedford to Three Bridges delayed at Streatham Common when 2B56 0030 London Victoria to Sutton was put in front. Both 9W17 and 9W19 were on time.)

The last Horsham to Peterborough which is 2311 off Horsham also goes via streatham (one of only three a day Horsham to Peterborough/Peterborough to Horsham trains to stop at Purley* )
None go via crystal anymore.

*the other two which stop at Purley are the first two of the day from Peterborough to Horsham. Around the first six down including these two stop at Norwood Junction . A further random down working sees a South Croydon call

Earlswood and Salfords are also rare calls on this service. The last down and last three up stop but all of these apart from the 2311 Horsham to Peterborough omit merstham and coulsdon south. The first few up in the morning do stop at all four but start from Gatwick or three bridges. The first three down stop at all four

DynamicSpirit said:

On a related, but more amusing note... It's well worth checking the National Rail journey planner to see what advice it offers to get from London Bridge to Blackfriars overnight... The recommended route appears to be to walk to St. Pancras and get a train from there to Blackfriars!

Umm. Yeah. Definitely going for that one!

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Good one. I Would have thought Jubilee to Southwark for the southern entrance to BFR - mind you, isn't it rather a walk?

You could just walk from London Bridge, its not that far along the bankside

Just get the tube up to st Pancras?

DynamicSpirit said:

What's the rationale behind this? The last SouthEastern trains into London Bridge arrive later than that, so having later trains skip London Bridge means it's impossible to connect from the last SouthEastern trains to get onto Thameslink. The overnight trains also skip City Thameslink (perhaps understandable given the short walking distance to Blackfriars) and - less understandably - Farringdon

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As others have already said, there are a number of diversionary routes that the late trains are either timetabled to take, or may take depending on engineering works, and I suspect it was felt that rather than the confusing situation that one gets on Southeastern, where different timetables and stopping points apply on certain days of the week (lots of TWO, ThFO notes in the last page or two of many southeastern weekday timetables), providing a standard approach 7 days a week was safer and more memorable, in terms of knowing when the last train is. For some passengers from the southeast, a later connection is available at Denmark Hill from the Bexleyheath line, or Catford / Catford Bridge from the mid-Kent.

Waterloo East Station is about 10 minutes walk from the southern entrance at Blackfriars, and Cannon Street about 15 minutes. Accessible transport is a little trickier, best recommendation is the Northern line to St Pancakes, or possibly the 17 bus, to either ludgate Hill or King's Cross.

Farringdon doesn't open late because it is actually a London Underground station (note the roundels on the thameslink platforms), and the opening hours are tied to the operation of the Circle/Metropolitan line. Fire safety rules may require a minimum staffing level for trains to call, which would need to be met by someone.

In both cases, it is a pity that services don't call later, particularly since they are both nightlife hubs for London. However, I guess that the 15-20 minutes walk may help sober some of the revellers up before they enjoy the delights of Thameslink.

387star said:

None go via crystal anymore.

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They can and do if needed.

Eg. as shown here for the 3rd March: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...-2359?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=TL

It could be that if they call at London bridge 24/7 but need diverting a replacement bus would need to be sourced to run.
We sometimes find ourselves being sent numerous ways around the houses to get to and from East Croydon.

An example I remember doing 2 trips to three bridges on one night the trains went 1 down via London bridge and forest hill. 2 up via selhurst and Herne hill , 3 down via London bridge, Peckham rye and crystal palace. 4 up via crystal palace and Herne hill.

westcoaster said:

It could be that if they call at London bridge 24/7 but need diverting a replacement bus would need to be sourced to run.
We sometimes find ourselves being sent numerous ways around the houses to get to and from East Croydon.

An example I remember doing 2 trips to three bridges on one night the trains went 1 down via London bridge and forest hill. 2 up via selhurst and Herne hill , 3 down via London bridge, Peckham rye and crystal palace. 4 up via crystal palace and Herne hill.

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Is it still possible to do Blackfriars-London Bridge-Peckham Rye as you did on train 3? I thought the track layout didn't allow it.

IrishDave said:

Is it still possible to do Blackfriars-London Bridge-Peckham Rye as you did on train 3? I thought the track layout didn't allow it.

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Looking at the track map, if the train went via platform 6/7 at London Bridge, then it can gain access to the line towards Peckham Rye.

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Another diversion route the late night/overnight Thameslink trains sometimes take is going via Clapham Junction

IrishDave said:

Is it still possible to do Blackfriars-London Bridge-Peckham Rye as you did on train 3? I thought the track layout didn't allow it.

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Yes the new track layout allows it, at the bottom of met junction you can cross over to to go through p7 and then across before bermondsay to access the south London lines.

Kite159 said:

Looking at the track map, if the train went via platform 6/7 at London Bridge, then it can gain access to the line towards Peckham Rye.

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Another diversion route the late night/overnight Thameslink trains sometimes take is going via Clapham Junction

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westcoaster said:

Yes the new track layout allows it, at the bottom of met junction you can cross over to to go through p7 and then across before bermondsay to access the south London lines.

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Thanks to you both - I'd forgotten you could get between Blackfriars and platforms 6-9 at London Bridge. Makes sense now!

There is no need to walk from Cannon Street to Blackfriars. The tube might be an option although not easy with heavy luggage However it would be sensible to get the train to Waterloo East and then walk to Blackfriars as it's not far. Before Thameslink trains started stopping at London Bridge again I used to walk from Waterloo to Blackfriars all the time with my luggage.