Trainspotting at Pedestrian Crossings

Spartacus · 12 Mar 2019

Keep behind the gate or fence whenever you can see a train coming is my advice, though I've been known to climb up the fence a bit in a couple of places to obtain a better photograph, but only in places where I would be well away from the line in the unlikely event that I might fall wrong side, and with camera in had my intentions would be pretty obvious.

RailUK Forums

SpeedyRails · 12 Mar 2019

Thanks All. I now realise my mistake and will not do this again.

To be clear, the gates are a long way back from the rails and down an embankment. You can not tell if a train is coming without passing through them, and climbing up to the level of the rails.

This is actually how I first experienced a train coming past; completely accidentally whilst trying to cross. I enjoyed watching and began heading that way on my walks more frequently. At first I didn't realise it was wrong, because I just thought it was the same as if I was waiting to cross.

Thank you to those who gave me the benefit of the doubt. I asked the question because I genuinely did not know the rules of crossings and was unable to find guidance online.

Philip · 12 Mar 2019

The rules of trespass on the railways in this country do seem a little strict at times to be fair. Obviously safety is paramount so hanging around literally trackside is wrong, but it seems a bit excessive relating to hanging around on station platforms to watch trains, as technically this is trespassing as well. So long as the person is stood on the platform well behind the yellow line I don't see anything wrong in being there if the intention is just to watch the trains.

tsr · 12 Mar 2019

Philip said:
The rules of trespass on the railways in this country do seem a little strict at times to be fair. Obviously safety is paramount so hanging around literally trackside is wrong, but it seems a bit excessive relating to hanging around on station platforms to watch trains, as technically this is trespassing as well. So long as the person is stood on the platform well behind the yellow line I don't see anything wrong in being there if the intention is just to watch the trains.

Firstly, this thread isn’t to do with trainspotters or photographers at stations - and secondly, this activity is usually entirely permissible when behind the yellow line on a platform, so long as you comply with reasonable staff instructions and don’t get in the way of them or passengers (and so long as you hold a ticket in a Compulsory Ticket Area, but such areas are pretty rare anyway).

Dieseldriver · 12 Mar 2019

Philip said:
The rules of trespass on the railways in this country do seem a little strict at times to be fair. Obviously safety is paramount so hanging around literally trackside is wrong, but it seems a bit excessive relating to hanging around on station platforms to watch trains, as technically this is trespassing as well. So long as the person is stood on the platform well behind the yellow line I don't see anything wrong in being there if the intention is just to watch the trains.

There's no safety issue for someone watching trains on a platform as long as they are behind the yellow line not causing an issue. I get annoyed hearing about enthusiasts who have been hassled by staff in these situations when they are doing nothing wrong.
All I would say (and I'm sure most people would understand) is anyone stood at the end of a platform for a period of time should expect to be approached and spoken to, only to ascertain their intentions but after the member of staff is satisfied there is no risk, they should respectfully leave them to it.

big all · 12 Mar 2019

SpeedyRails said:
Thanks All. I now realise my mistake and will not do this again.

To be clear, the gates are a long way back from the rails and down an embankment. You can not tell if a train is coming without passing through them, and climbing up to the level of the rails.

This is actually how I first experienced a train coming past; completely accidentally whilst trying to cross. I enjoyed watching and began heading that way on my walks more frequently. At first I didn't realise it was wrong, because I just thought it was the same as if I was waiting to cross.

Thank you to those who gave me the benefit of the doubt. I asked the question because I genuinely did not know the rules of crossings and was unable to find guidance online.

good on you for coming back
pleased we have helped as every answer given has been useful if a little emotion from some which i off course fully understand

i had a woman go to commit suicide at boxhill and west humble
i was driving a 455 stopping at the station doing perhaps 15-20mph coming through the bridge when i saw her
she jumped in front and curled up thankfully
she was a very slight woman again thankfully
full emergency application including the non existant footbrake you automatically push
she was off course hit ???
well her head popped up platform side between trailer and motor coach again thankfully as she definatley wouldn't fit under the motors
she shouted can i come out now
i cursed and swore for a few seconds before the relief set in she was dirty but fully unharmed
now the only reason i mention this is to show i understand the stress and worry off people and bricks but have learnt a calm head in a dangerous or failure situation works best o_O

HaggisBotherer · 12 Mar 2019

SpeedyRails said:
Thanks All. I now realise my mistake and will not do this again.

To be clear, the gates are a long way back from the rails and down an embankment. You can not tell if a train is coming without passing through them, and climbing up to the level of the rails.

A smartphone with http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ on its web browser should make it easy enough for you to work out what is coming and when, without having to go through the gate, up the embankment and giving any drivers a heart attack.

Darandio · 12 Mar 2019

HaggisBotherer said:
A smartphone with http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ on its web browser should make it easy enough for you to work out what is coming and when, without having to go through the gate, up the embankment and giving any drivers a heart attack.

Not every train is shown on RTT or other open data feeds. Don't rely on it simply as a means of being able to cross the track safely.

Esker-pades · 12 Mar 2019

HaggisBotherer said:
A smartphone with http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ on its web browser should make it easy enough for you to work out what is coming and when, without having to go through the gate, up the embankment and giving any drivers a heart attack.

No, really no. Approach with caution with all sense focused on the railway. Have nothing on a phone or similar.

GB · 12 Mar 2019

HaggisBotherer said:
A smartphone with http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ on its web browser should make it easy enough for you to work out what is coming and when, without having to go through the gate, up the embankment and giving any drivers a heart attack.

RTT only gives an indication of whats in the general area of a timing point. Sections between timing points can vary significantly so you can not accurately know whats in the area around the crossing....even with signal berth maps you can't be 100% sure where the trains are. Also add the fact (as others have said) that RTT does not show every train the data can also be delayed, disrupted or purely just not working.

Never use such sites to determine what is or isn't about.

Dieseldriver · 12 Mar 2019

HaggisBotherer said:
A smartphone with http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ on its web browser should make it easy enough for you to work out what is coming and when, without having to go through the gate, up the embankment and giving any drivers a heart attack.

The award to the giver of the least useful and most dangerous 'tip' goes to you. Congratulations.

SpeedyRails · 12 Mar 2019

big all said:
good on you for coming back
pleased we have helped as every answer given has been useful if a little emotion from some which i off course fully understand

i had a woman go to commit suicide at boxhill and west humble
i was driving a 455 stopping at the station doing perhaps 15-20mph coming through the bridge when i saw her
she jumped in front and curled up thankfully
she was a very slight woman again thankfully
full emergency application including the non existant footbrake you automatically push
she was off course hit ???
well her head popped up platform side between trailer and motor coach again thankfully as she definatley wouldn't fit under the motors
she shouted can i come out now
i cursed and swore for a few seconds before the relief set in she was dirty but fully unharmed
now the only reason i mention this is to show i understand the stress and worry off people and bricks but have learnt a calm head in a dangerous or failure situation works best

Thank you for your kindness and sharing your story. I have been very fortunate in that I have never contemplated or been exposed to suicide in my life, so the idea that the drivers might think that was what I was doing never crossed my mind. My concern was that I was simply a distraction while they were trying to do their job.

I now understand the justified emotion from people in this thread and feel very guilty and sad that I may have caused those drivers worries or grief. That was certainly never my intention.

Flying Claret · 12 Mar 2019

cuccir said:
To be honest I can't believe you're asking the question.

Don't cross, or remain track-side of, the barriers when they're down. For any reason. Ever.

-
You may want to read the relevant section of The Highway Code, which applies to all users, including pedestrians.

No such thing as a stupid question....?

tsr · 12 Mar 2019

Dieseldriver said:
The award to the giver of the least useful and most dangerous 'tip' goes to you. Congratulations.

I’m not sure HaggisBotherer was suggesting that you should use RTT to determine if it’s safe to use a foot crossing.

It reads, to my eyes, quite the opposite way - a suggestion for actually avoiding the need to go near the track if you want to know if a train might be coming which you can watch, thereby preventing an enthusiast from needing to observe from within the boundary fence.

Flying Claret said:
No such thing as a stupid question....?

Indeed. The answers to the original question have been mostly sensible responses to a reasonable query from the uninitiated.

Dieseldriver · 12 Mar 2019

SpeedyRails said:
Thank you for your kindness and sharing your story. I have been very fortunate in that I have never contemplated or been exposed to suicide in my life, so the idea that the drivers might think that was what I was doing never crossed my mind. My concern was that I was simply a distraction while they were trying to do their job.

I now understand the justified emotion from people in this thread and feel very guilty and sad that I may have caused those drivers worries or grief. That was certainly never my intention.

No ill feeling from me. I was actually surprised at the reception you got from some members! Fair play for asking when you were unsure

HaggisBotherer · 12 Mar 2019

Dieseldriver said:
The award to the giver of the least useful and most dangerous 'tip' goes to you. Congratulations.

And the award for the reader who completely missed the point of what I was saying goes to you, Mr Clever. Well done.

The OP said in his opening post that he was going to this crossing to do some train spotting in his lunch break and that, in order to see if any trains were coming, he had to go up on to the crossing. NOT that he was going to the crossing with the need to cross it.

With me so far?

Exactly as tsr (who evidently has a few more active grey cells, thank you) has noted, my suggestion was that, in order to spot trains from the safety of the foot of the embankment, RTT on a smartphone will give him an idea of what trains there may be in the area for spotting purposes... as I already said without having to go through the gate and on to the crossing to see if one is coming.

Is that clear enough, or shall I break it down into words of fewer syllables?

Apology for your pointless, unnecessary and completely misplaced sarcasm accepted.

Dieseldriver · 12 Mar 2019

HaggisBotherer said:
And the award for the reader who completely missed the point of what I was saying goes to you, Mr Clever. Well done.

The OP said in his opening post that he was going to this crossing to do some train spotting in his lunch break and that, in order to see if any trains were coming, he had to go up on to the crossing. NOT that he was going to the crossing with the need to cross it.

With me so far?

Exactly as tsr (who evidently has a few more active grey cells, thank you) has noted, my suggestion was that, in order to spot trains from the safety of the foot of the embankment, RTT on a smartphone will give him an idea of what trains there may be in the area for spotting purposes... as I already said without having to go through the gate and on to the crossing to see if one is coming.

Is that clear enough, or shall I break it down into words of fewer syllables?

Apology for your pointless, unnecessary and completely misplaced sarcasm accepted.

Thankyou for noticing how clever I am. Looking at it now I realise I did misunderstand your first post (which if it had been the case I felt like I'd make it clear how dangerous it would be).
So yes I did read it wrong, and as someone with a vested interest in good railway safety education I reacted to it (in hindsight) wrongly.
I must say many thanks for your over the top patronising post, looks like we're equals with no need for apologies...

Clayton · 12 Mar 2019

HaggisBotherer said:
And the award for the reader who completely missed the point of what I was saying goes to you, Mr Clever. Well done.

The OP said in his opening post that he was going to this crossing to do some train spotting in his lunch break and that, in order to see if any trains were coming, he had to go up on to the crossing. NOT that he was going to the crossing with the need to cross it.

With me so far?

Exactly as tsr (who evidently has a few more active grey cells, thank you) has noted, my suggestion was that, in order to spot trains from the safety of the foot of the embankment, RTT on a smartphone will give him an idea of what trains there may be in the area for spotting purposes... as I already said without having to go through the gate and on to the crossing to see if one is coming.

Is that clear enough, or shall I break it down into words of fewer syllables?

Apology for your pointless, unnecessary and completely misplaced sarcasm accepted.

Ridiculously aggressive and patronising post

Dieseldriver · 12 Mar 2019

Clayton said:
Ridiculously aggressive and patronising post

In fairness, mine wasn't particularly great initially due to me misunderstanding their first post. Still a very angry Haggis though! :lol:

Intermodal · 12 Mar 2019

Lovely weather we are having isn't it?

big all · 12 Mar 2019

time to call a truce i think

after the initial misunderstanding and without the "you what" in the pub to correct the misunderstanding instantly on the internet things can quickly get heated :frown:

along with the lack off facial prompts or tone from face to face to settle things down in life where as on a forum they can easily upset
time to put this down as a misunderstanding and move on at least as just contributors but hopefully as friends

STKKK46 · 12 Mar 2019

SpeedyRails said:
Thank you for your kindness and sharing your story. I have been very fortunate in that I have never contemplated or been exposed to suicide in my life, so the idea that the drivers might think that was what I was doing never crossed my mind. My concern was that I was simply a distraction while they were trying to do their job.

I now understand the justified emotion from people in this thread and feel very guilty and sad that I may have caused those drivers worries or grief. That was certainly never my intention.

I don’t think you should feel guilty or sad. You asked a very fair question because you wanted to know if you were doing something wrong.

Some may disagree but I say fair play to you, a lot of people won’t think of these things.

I’m also glad that forum members were not particularly unpleasant in their words.

Just keep behind the gate and enjoy yourself. Don’t go trackside unless authorised to do so.

Far north 37 · 12 Mar 2019

How many of these type of crossings are there would it be feasible to put a bridge type structure up say maybe where the ones with the most recorded near misses are.

philthetube · 12 Mar 2019

yorkie said:
Only if you are crossing; you are not allowed to be there at all if you aren't.

If it is a public footpath I am not sure you are right there Yorkie.

apk55 said:
There are some foot crossings where you can not see if a train is coming until you are well onto railway property ie past the stile. For example I can think of one on the Buxton line near Lyme park where you have to climb steps on a high embankment to get to railway level, although you would see the train safely at the top of the stairs

Loads of these about.

whhistle · 13 Mar 2019

If you're behind the gate (IE, not on the railway side), I don't see a problem in watching the trains go by.
A bit close mind you.

Bletchleyite · 13 Mar 2019

philthetube said:
If it is a public footpath I am not sure you are right there Yorkie.

"It's complicated". Public footpaths only give you the right to "pass and repass" but not to "stop and linger", which means to use them as a means of getting from A to B, though I'm fairly sure legal precedent has it that stopping for your lunch in a sensible place (not for instance right in the middle of a working farm) or taking photographs is incidental. However a day spent trainspotting I don't think would be.

GodAtum · 13 Mar 2019

SpeedyRails said:
Thank you for your kindness and sharing your story. I have been very fortunate in that I have never contemplated or been exposed to suicide in my life, so the idea that the drivers might think that was what I was doing never crossed my mind. My concern was that I was simply a distraction while they were trying to do their job.

I now understand the justified emotion from people in this thread and feel very guilty and sad that I may have caused those drivers worries or grief. That was certainly never my intention.

I have a pedestrian crossing near where i work. This is deep in the countryside so i don't think there is any CCTV. It is a manual gate on a single unelectrified line. I always stand behind the gate when I train passes.

Islineclear3_1 · 13 Mar 2019

What happened to using your eyes and ears...?

TheSel · 13 Mar 2019

GodAtum said:
I have a pedestrian crossing near where i work. This is deep in the countryside so i don't think there is any CCTV. It is a manual gate on a single unelectrified line. I always stand behind the gate when I train passes.

Not sure the presence or absence of CCTV is relevant here. Are you saying that [for example] you are quite happy to disregard speed restriction signs providing there is no 'Big Brother' watching you?

philthetube · 13 Mar 2019

robert7111a said:
What happened to using your eyes and ears...?

I think the bigger issue is what you will cause the driver to think, not the op's personal safety

Trainspotting at Pedestrian Crossings

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