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Second attempt at MMI, did you pass or fail?

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ComUtoR

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"If you saw an accident what would you do?" I tried to get more clarification as to what the accident was e.g. car crash, train crash etc but she wouldn't say.

Such a B*S* question really. I mean every emergency is different....as long as you apply common sense. It is one of those questions they can fail or pass you on whether they want to or not.

The problem is that not everyone has common sense or are so firm in their beliefs that they don't see the woods for the trees. People are also so hung up on trying to satisfy the question based on what they think is the right answer that again, they aren't actually thinking or answering the question.

In hindsight I think they're looking for people who are reluctant to help in situations like that and would rather just call an ambulance and let them deal with it.

It is a major rule of emergencies. All advice is the same and contains a simple instruction. 'GET HELP' It isn't about a reluctance to help because people do have an instinct to help but a serious effect of people who run towards danger or try to help is that they can make it worse. I remember a campaign when I was a ickle one about motorcycle accidents. People who try to help would remove the helmet because they thought that would help. People who run into burning buildings just become another person to save :/

One of the hardest things I learned when I was a Trainee was that during a fire, with no communication, you walk a mile and a quarter to get help. All I could think of was that my train could be on fire and I'd leave the people on the train and not assist them. The priority is to protect the line and get communication. It is very hard to switch off that need to go and see if people need help.

The MMI and DMI 'score' answers. IF the highest score was that the first thing out of the candidates mouth was to 'get help' then it isn't wrong to say you would do x or y, just that you could score higher. Consistent lower scoring affects the outcome. Granted there is a criteria/competency based score too. It could simply be that if the candidate calls the emergency services that gets a tick in the competency box. Where 'common sense' dictates that most people will say that then you are on equal footing with every other candidate. Where there after numerous applicants for a single job and all score the same, then you need the minute to split them.
 
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MDCW

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I was told what the question I'd failed on was when I got the feedback from my first attempt. I remember being surprised that it wasn't the question I thought I'd failed on. :lol:
Interesting, did you eventually pass or give up?
 

GG96LFC

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I wish I was able to get any feedback at all. After passing the DMI last year, I failed on the MMI. I called and emailed OPC so many times I lost count. Every time I was told ‘give us your number so we can call you with feedback.’ The OPC refused to email me the feedback, and even when I was calling to complain, I was still being told ‘give us your number and we will call.’ I never dis get any feedback at all in the end, simply trying to get feedback felt like another MMI itself. But I didn’t want to say anything rude to anyone at the OPC (even though I was extremely tempted) because I hopefully have one more shot at the MMI
 

Topcat999

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I was told what the question I'd failed on was when I got the feedback from my first attempt. I remember being surprised that it wasn't the question I thought I'd failed on. :lol:
I only got "your application" was unsuccessful.....not one word from them on what part etc...
 

MDCW

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I eventually passed am now driving! Never give up! :)

That's good to hear, how long did it take you to get back into the process and pass? I've heard when you apply for the second time you're at the back of the queue with everyone else and get no preferential treatment. Is this your experience?
 

Dynamonic

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That's good to hear, how long did it take you to get back into the process and pass? I've heard when you apply for the second time you're at the back of the queue with everyone else and get no preferential treatment. Is this your experience?

I waited 3 years before reapplying and did the whole process again from scratch.
You won’t get preferential treatment when you attempt it again, as you’ll still need to get through the initial sifting again. (Keep a record of your applications to assist you with future attempts) You may be able to skip some of the OPC assessments though if you reapply quick enough and the TOC/FOC hasn’t since changed the required pass marks.
In my case, my TOC accepted assessment marks under two years old, and raised the required standard since my first attempt, hence the reason I did everything again.
I was certainly far better prepared second time round though, now knowing what to expect, and I would advise that you don’t rush into reapplying, do all the research you need to do, and make sure you are ready to go through the process again.
However, definitely don’t give up! It can be daunting getting the motivation to put yourself through the process again, but it is certainly worth it! :)
 

Jlob2804

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The problem is that not everyone has common sense or are so firm in their beliefs that they don't see the woods for the trees. People are also so hung up on trying to satisfy the question based on what they think is the right answer that again, they aren't actually thinking or answering the question.



It is a major rule of emergencies. All advice is the same and contains a simple instruction. 'GET HELP' It isn't about a reluctance to help because people do have an instinct to help but a serious effect of people who run towards danger or try to help is that they can make it worse. I remember a campaign when I was a ickle one about motorcycle accidents. People who try to help would remove the helmet because they thought that would help. People who run into burning buildings just become another person to save :/

One of the hardest things I learned when I was a Trainee was that during a fire, with no communication, you walk a mile and a quarter to get help. All I could think of was that my train could be on fire and I'd leave the people on the train and not assist them. The priority is to protect the line and get communication. It is very hard to switch off that need to go and see if people need help.

The MMI and DMI 'score' answers. IF the highest score was that the first thing out of the candidates mouth was to 'get help' then it isn't wrong to say you would do x or y, just that you could score higher. Consistent lower scoring affects the outcome. Granted there is a criteria/competency based score too. It could simply be that if the candidate calls the emergency services that gets a tick in the competency box. Where 'common sense' dictates that most people will say that then you are on equal footing with every other candidate. Where there after numerous applicants for a single job and all score the same, then you need the minute to split them.

I just had a phone call from SWR and I passed my MMI. I only had to wait 4 days but that wait was hell, so thank you for making it easier with what you said above. I've just got the medical to do now.

If anyone has any questions about the MMI then feel free to PM me. I can now give legit advice, ha.
 

MDCW

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I just had a phone call from SWR and I passed my MMI. I only had to wait 4 days but that wait was hell, so thank you for making it easier with what you said above. I've just got the medical to do now.

If anyone has any questions about the MMI then feel free to PM me. I can now give legit advice, ha.

Congratulations! I can vouch that waiting time is tough! I bet you got a boost of happiness after that call! Good luck with the medical.
 
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MDCW

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I waited 3 years before reapplying and did the whole process again from scratch.
You won’t get preferential treatment when you attempt it again, as you’ll still need to get through the initial sifting again. (Keep a record of your applications to assist you with future attempts) You may be able to skip some of the OPC assessments though if you reapply quick enough and the TOC/FOC hasn’t since changed the required pass marks.
In my case, my TOC accepted assessment marks under two years old, and raised the required standard since my first attempt, hence the reason I did everything again.
I was certainly far better prepared second time round though, now knowing what to expect, and I would advise that you don’t rush into reapplying, do all the research you need to do, and make sure you are ready to go through the process again.
However, definitely don’t give up! It can be daunting getting the motivation to put yourself through the process again, but it is certainly worth it! :)

Bet the stress levels were high attempting your second and final shot at this!

Great advice btw, thanks.
 

Hasan Shah

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I had my MMI for SWR a few days ago.

I had this question I'm worried about.
It was a hypothetical question based on the SJE I sat first (not an official MMI question) and she said, "If you saw an accident what would you do?" I tried to get more clarification as to what the accident was e.g. car crash, train crash etc but she wouldn't say.

I said. "I would make sure I was safe first", e.g. wouldn't run out into a road to help an unconscious driver without checking it was clear. Then I said, "I would check their situation i.e. if they're conscious or not and if necessary call an ambulance."
She said, "So basically, you 'WOULD' do something?" and I said yes. It felt like that was the wrong thing to say but I'd already said it.

In hindsight I think they're looking for people who are reluctant to help in situations like that and would rather just call an ambulance and let them deal with it.

I revised really hard for the MMI and feel like I did OK in most other aspects, so if I don't get it because of that it's going to be quite hard to take, especially as the driver manager in my DMI thought I would breeze it. For SWR it's the last hurdle before the medical.

Maybe it's a psychological question, where they know most are gonna answer that they would help, so they might try to make it like your giving the wrong answer to see if you change your answer to appease them or you would genuinely help, so getting rid of the weak minded people, so I think sticking to your answer would be a pass from me
 

Hasan Shah

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I'm struggling with how to answer "how to deal with a emergency" question. I can't think of any examples or over thinking and theirs a simpler answer
 

Topcat999

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I'm struggling with how to answer "how to deal with a emergency" question. I can't think of any examples or over thinking and theirs a simpler answer
what did you when the mother in law came to visit? That is always an emergency.
 

benno79

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When i failed I was told the question I failed on. There is an rssb document that was published when they were changing the tests in 2013 and it actually states what they are looking for in the answers and includes some key words. I passed second time thankfully.
 

Peeler

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When i failed I was told the question I failed on. There is an rssb document that was published when they were changing the tests in 2013 and it actually states what they are looking for in the answers and includes some key words. I passed second time thankfully.
Have you got a link to this document?
Please!
 

Highlandspring

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There is an rssb document that was published when they were changing the tests in 2013 and it actually states what they are looking for in the answers and includes some key words.
I spent quite a long time searching for this last night. I didn’t find it but did turn up a summary report explaining the thinking behind the 2013 driver’s assessment update and the statistics which underpin each test. It doesn’t give much detail at all about the MMI but it does say why they moved from the CBI to the MMI type interview. You’d need a Spark log in to read it though.

In that report it specifically states that RSSB will not publish any information publicly at all about the MMI, what the assessor is looking for or how its scored because this would assist candidates. Giving feedback on the MMI is not encouraged by RSSB as it may help a candidate pass second time round. It did contain the interesting snippet that there is no way of predicting from the scores of the other parts of the assessment whether someone will pass or fail the MMI; apparently it counts for 8% of failures at the assessment stage but on average only 46% of prospective candidates overall fail at the assessment stage. The report stated that those who fail the assessment the first time but pass the second time are statistically proven to perform better on their driver training course, which I thought was interesting. It also mentioned that at the 2013 revision they reduced the pass mark for the Group Bourdon test substantially...
 

Peeler

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I spent quite a long time searching for this last night. I didn’t find it but did turn up a summary report explaining the thinking behind the 2013 driver’s assessment update and the statistics which underpin each test including why they moved from the CBI to the MMI type interview. You’ll need an RSSB SPARK log in to read it though.

In that report it specifically states that RSSB will not publish any information publicly at all about the MMI, what the assessor is looking for or how its scored because this would assist candidates. Giving feedback on the MMI is not encouraged by RSSB as it may help a candidate pass second time round. It did contain the interesting snippet that there is no way of predicting from the scores of the other part of the assessment whether someone will pass or fail the MMI; apparently it counts for 8% of failures at the assessment stage but on average only 46% of prospective candidates overall fail at the assessment stage. The report stated that those who fail the assessment the first time but pass the second time are statistically proven to do better on their driver training course, which I thought was interesting. It also mentioned that at the 2013 revision they reduced the pass mark for the Group Bourdon test substantially...

SNAP! I did the same too last night. I guess it would be too easy to find what we had hoped for but the main thing I was looking for was the areas they assess so I am glad I found that at least (I.e what skills are being assessed not the how & positive and negative indicators which is not listed).
 

dctraindriver

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Have you got a link to this document?
Please!
I expect it’s hidden in the depths now. Besides a lot of what you need is on here.

It’s about verbal communication, I guess you’re an ex copper? Lots of examples to use. If you’ve done a board in the old job it’s similar, clear, concise verbal communication. You know what sort of words will score higher.
 

Peeler

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I expect it’s hidden in the depths now. Besides a lot of what you need is on here.

It’s about verbal communication, I guess you’re an ex copper? Lots of examples to use. If you’ve done a board in the old job it’s similar, clear, concise verbal communication. You know what sort of words will score higher.

Cheers. Still serving :) Have my DMI first which seems more of a ‘do we like you, will you fit, can you do the job’ type interview:s
 

Kevind

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If you fail the Train driver assessment twice, can you still apply for the shunt driver position
 

MDCW

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If you fail the Train driver assessment twice, can you still apply for the shunt driver position

Interesting, can you progress from shunt driver to mainline or is it still game over?
 

Willum

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I failed my MMI immediately after DayDr3am3r passed his (not that I’m bitter lol). It hit me really hard. I was really low for a good couple of weeks, but have slowly come out of it.
I called opc and asked for feedback. It does take them weeks, but they do call. I found out that I ‘failed’ on the last question. I knew I could have answered better and could probably have passed if I said what I thought about later. Although it was gutting to hear it was actually more positive to find out. I now know that although it’s far from easy, I can pass it. I will try again when the opportunity arises.
In the mean time I’m trying for a conductor post. I have a short notice offer for the second assessment for that which is what I was trying to research tonight (without much luck). I think this would be a good job in itself as well as giving me a much greater insight and opportunity to apply for a trainee driver post again in the future.
I know how you feel. It’s a big emotional investment/risk putting yourself through the process again, but I think you do have to go for it. Good luck whatever you decide to do.
 

Stigy

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