Northern/Scotrail through services Glasgow/Dumfries-Newcastle - unique?

Bevan Price · 6 Mar 2019

At one the afternoon Newcastle / Stranraer service used to attract good loads on summer saturdays - I remember it was sometimes 4 coaches, although I suspect many passengers might be going only as far as Ayr. Back in the 1970s, there had been loco-hauled services between Newcastle and the Ayrshire Coast on summer saturdays (Class 40 or 37 when I saw them.).

I wonder if/when the Carlisle /GSW / Glasgow route will ever be upgraded to Class 158s (or 170s ?)

RailUK Forums

Killingworth · 7 Mar 2019

Bevan Price said:
At one the afternoon Newcastle / Stranraer service used to attract good loads on summer saturdays - I remember it was sometimes 4 coaches, although I suspect many passengers might be going only as far as Ayr. Back in the 1970s, there had been loco-hauled services between Newcastle and the Ayrshire Coast on summer saturdays (Class 40 or 37 when I saw them.).

I wonder if/when the Carlisle /GSW / Glasgow route will ever be upgraded to Class 158s (or 170s ?)

My fading memory of what must have been the last days of steam hauled to Stranraer would suggest regular trains of at least 4 or 5 coaches.

In the 1950s there were many thousands of surplus coaches so many trains were becoming increasingly empty as cars took away the market. Having a compartment to oneself was quite a normal experience. When DMUs came out they too ran around almost empty on many routes.

Marton · 7 Mar 2019

DanNCL said:
Still happens, the unit does a service from Dumfries to Carlisle for ScotRail in the morning before working down to Nunthorpe, returning to Hexham, then into Newcastle where it sits for a couple of hours before doing a return trip to Morpeth, then returning to Carlisle and eventually Glasgow in the evening.

This picture proves the point I think. Taken at James Cook on 12 February.

adrock1976 · 7 Mar 2019

Marton said:
View attachment 60104

This picture proves the point I think. Taken at James Cook on 12 February.

It seems that the boys from Coatbridge were on that train, going by the exhibit between the seat backs.

(For those who are unaware, Coatbridge has the pleasurable or dubious honour of having the most amount of sales of Buckfast per head of population, according to a health report I saw in one of the regional rags years ago).

ItsGrimUpNorth · 8 Mar 2019

Bevan Price said:
I wonder if/when the Carlisle /GSW / Glasgow route will ever be upgraded to Class 158s (or 170s ?)

158’s reappeared on the Tyne Valley line from early February, think it was Monday the 8th?

Only a couple of diagrams so far have seen them in use, but far better than bouncing around on a 142!

ItsGrimUpNorth · 8 Mar 2019

Edit - Post duplicated

thenorthern · 8 Mar 2019

Years ago Arriva Trains Northern (not the current incarnation) and First North Western operated a join service from Hartlepool to Whitehaven that was Arriva Trains Northern crew to Carlisle and then First North Western crew from Carlisle to Whitehaven although it was an Arriva unit. The unit then returned to Carlisle as a First North Western train. Through trains from Newcastle to Whitehaven no longer exist though in any case.

Lemmy99uk · 8 Mar 2019

thenorthern said:
Years ago Arriva Trains Northern (not the current incarnation) and First North Western operated a join service from Hartlepool to Whitehaven that was Arriva Trains Northern crew to Carlisle and then First North Western crew from Carlisle to Whitehaven although it was an Arriva unit. The unit then returned to Carlisle as a First North Western train. Through trains from Newcastle to Whitehaven no longer exist though in any case.

And the 06:43 from Carlisle to Dumfries consisted of a First North Western unit with an Arriva crew on a Scotrail service!

Class 170101 · 8 Mar 2019

Ianno87 said:
When first introduced on a limited basis in 2006, the Euston-Trent Valley-Crewe local service was operated by Silverlink south of Rugby and Central Trains north thereof. Likewise for the limited cross-Northampton service at that time (which changed TOC at Northampton)

Ended when the franchises were combined into London Midland

But Central and Silverlink were both franchises of National Express when it started as I recall.

86247 · 17 Mar 2019

does anyone have the diagrams for the Scot rail 156s off Newcastle as my mate is still after 1 of them

ItsGrimUpNorth · 18 Mar 2019

ItsGrimUpNorth said:
I’ll be on it again next week, so I’ll keep a count. Not often there’s more than 5 from memory though.

Did it on Thursday, and a grand total of 0 in my carriage when boarded at Carlisle! Seems everybody from SW Scotland got off on arrival into Carlisle.

Noddy · 18 Mar 2019

VT 390 said:
What is the point of the services as it seams unlikely than many passengers will stay on through Carlisle so why not just split the service at Carlisle. Also this would mean the service could be more reliable as by having such a long service it increases the chances of delays.

Ianno87 said:
Historically, it was the Newcastle-Stranraer boat train, though that purpose hasn't existed for many years.

Do many passengers do journeys like Kilmarnock/Dumfries-Newcastle?

70014IronDuke said:
Perhaps the train you get is one of the two morning turns from Dumfries? In which case, I assume their primary purpose is commuter traffic to Carlisle and long-distance to the south, and they would be two of the best loaded trains of the day? So yes, most people would be getting off. But how many folks stay on, would you say - 5, 10, 20?

Well, presumably it would be a bigger pain for Scotrail to have to provide the units?
Anyway, it's a trade off. Presumably *some* passengers do travel through to Newcastle, or some intermediate stations, and some of these would be lost if they had to change?

Perhaps it would be more useful if one of the morning trains were redirected to Leeds? Perhaps that would attract a few more through passengers? It could take the path of the 08.24 to Leeds. And the incoming early morning arrival from Leeds could continue to Dumfries? Gotta to come back, of course

I seem to remember catching a direct Shipley (ex-Leeds?)-Glasgow via Dumfries a few times in the early/mid 2000s. Might have been a joint Northern (Spirit?)-Scotrail service as well? Was quicker than any other route due to poor connections and certainly a lot cheaper!

Highlandspring · 18 Mar 2019

The Northern Spirit Leeds - Glasgow service wasn’t jointly operated with ScotRail. I was under the impression that in those pre-Pendolino days it went WCML rather than G&SW though.

PHILIPE · 18 Mar 2019

Highlandspring said:
The Northern Spirit Leeds - Glasgow service wasn’t jointly operated with ScotRail. I was under the impression that in those pre-Pendolino days it went WCML rather than G&SW though.

Correct. It went via WCML thus prompting concerns that contributed towards it's withdrawal as there would be no assistance available via Lockerbie in the event of failure

d9009alycidon · 18 Mar 2019

adrock1976 said:
It seems that the boys from Coatbridge were on that train, going by the exhibit between the seat backs.

(For those who are unaware, Coatbridge has the pleasurable or dubious honour of having the most amount of sales of Buckfast per head of population, according to a health report I saw in one of the regional rags years ago).

As an aside, the minimum unit price for alcohol introduced by our wonderful Scottish Parliament (50p/unit) to reduce alcohol abuse and anti social behavior had absolutely zero effect on the price of this infamous brew, they reckon it is the mixture of alcohol and caffeine that makes this stuff potent.

route101 · 19 Mar 2019

PHILIPE said:
Correct. It went via WCML thus prompting concerns that contributed towards it's withdrawal as there would be no assistance available via Lockerbie in the event of failure

Love to see this come back , via the WCML .

Prudhoe · 25 Mar 2019

Attached a schedule of CK 156 diagrams at present, plus new ones from May 2019.

LeylandLen · 25 Mar 2019

Killingworth said:
Back in the 1950s there were thousands of old coaches that only came out to run summer specials, usually on Saturdays and often on obscure routes not seeing regular services. Glasgow to Whitley Bay was one.

Another one was summer Saturdays Glasgow to Blackpool, reversing at Preston, presumably a different loco taking the train on to Blackpool.
Obviously,that service could be reinstated now with Voyagers/390s if there is a need for it and available stock .

d9009alycidon · 26 Mar 2019

LeylandLen said:
Another one was summer Saturdays Glasgow to Blackpool, reversing at Preston, presumably a different loco taking the train on to Blackpool.
Obviously,that service could be reinstated now with Voyagers/390s if there is a need for it and available stock .

My favorite was the Glasgow to Scarborough service, always threw up a variety of traction, first time I used it it was a 26 Glasgow to Edinburgh, 46 Edinburgh to York and 37 York to Scarborough. The return was a 31 Scarborough to York and a 40 throughout York to Glasgow!

xotGD · 26 Mar 2019

d9009alycidon said:
My favorite was the Glasgow to Scarborough service, always threw up a variety of traction, first time I used it it was a 26 Glasgow to Edinburgh, 46 Edinburgh to York and 37 York to Scarborough. The return was a 31 Scarborough to York and a 40 throughout York to Glasgow!

A 26 reached Newcastle on that service on at least one occasion after a 37 failed. Something that can be described using the 'D' word. I recall the folk in DARTS (the Dundee Anti-Rancid Tractor Society) took great delight in this.

Northern/Scotrail through services Glasgow/Dumfries-Newcastle - unique?

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Attachments

Member

Member

Established Member