Level Crossings and Cycle Races

eastdyke · 1 May 2019

Starts tomorrow!! (Thursday 2nd May)
ITV4 has full live coverage plus highlights each evening:
https://letour.yorkshire.com/information/tv-coverage/

Edited to add:
I see that LNER are listed amongst the sponsors, and will be part of the publicity pre-race (in some cases post-race) 'caravan'
An Azuma on 4 wheels perhaps?

Participants in the publicity caravan include:
Asda, Biffa, Black Sheep Brewery, Carthy & Black, Eisberg, Global, Harrogate Spring Water, Help for Heroes, Jowett, LNER, Mackenzie Thorpe, Mug Shot, Northern Powergrid, Raisthorpe Yorkshire Tonic, Slingsby Gin, Soreen, Welcome to Yorkshire, Yorkshire Bank Bike Libraries, the Yorkshire Regiment and Yorkshire 2019.

Full details
https://letour.yorkshire.com/the-la...-caravan-and-ambassadors-tours-back-for-2019/

RailUK Forums

dazzler · 1 May 2019

eastdyke said:
Starts tomorrow!! (Thursday 2nd May)
ITV4 has full live coverage plus highlights each evening:
https://letour.yorkshire.com/information/tv-coverage/

Edited to add:
I see that LNER are listed amongst the sponsors, and will be part of the publicity pre-race (in some cases post-race) 'caravan'
An Azuma on 4 wheels perhaps?

Full details
https://letour.yorkshire.com/the-la...-caravan-and-ambassadors-tours-back-for-2019/

LNER are also the sponsors of the Red Jersey for the Best Climber in both men's and women's races. More Azuma than class 91 then - especially if it's wet!

mpthomson · 1 May 2019

OneOffDave said:
This should apply to any event. Nothing should be allowed to close public roads except roadworks. During the TdF in Yorkshire, one of the hospitals was effectively cut off by road closures for about 6 hours

Except it wasn't. There were contingency plans in place that allowed for access to the hospital and no-one came to any harm as a result.

mpthomson · 1 May 2019

Kneedown said:
But breaches of the Highway Code can be used to substantiate a charge of driving without due care. Not really applicable to cyclists currently, I know.

No they can't. The Highway Code is NOT legislation and can play no role in any prosecution.

Kneedown · 1 May 2019

mpthomson said:
No they can't. The Highway Code is NOT legislation and can play no role in any prosecution.

I think you'll find otherwise.

nr758123 · 1 May 2019

eastdyke said:
Part quote only:
Saturday 21 September - Sunday 29 September
The 2019 UCI Road World Championships will take place in Yorkshire, Great Britain from September 21-29. The racing will be centred around Harrogate, but start locations will be spread across the county, in Ripon, Northallerton, Richmond, Doncaster, Bradford and Leeds. .....
Recommended stations
Harrogate, Ripon, Northallerton, Darlington (for Richmond), Doncaster, Bradford Interchange / Bradford Forster Square, Leeds.

When did Ripon regain its station?

duffield · 1 May 2019

mpthomson said:
No they can't. The Highway Code is NOT legislation and can play no role in any prosecution.

It's not legislation, but it *is* referenced in legislation; according to the Road Traffic Act 1988 its provisions can be used to establish liability or lack of liability in criminal and civil court.

Quoting from sub section 7 of section 38 of the RTA, link:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/38

(My emphasis added to relevant part):

"A failure on the part of a person to observe a provision of the Highway Code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind but any such failure may in any proceedings (whether civil or criminal, and including proceedings for an offence under the Traffic Acts, the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or sections 18 to 23 of the Transport Act 1985) be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings."

To me that sounds like a clear indication that it *can* have a role in a prosecution.

hwl · 1 May 2019

Kneedown said:
I think you'll find otherwise.

Agreed I was following one particular car driver who eventually caused some damage at a Level Crossing and the police were very interested in the 11 items I clocked before the LC (no CCTV at LC).
(Driver was convicted 7 months later)

Mutant Lemming · 1 May 2019

There doesn't seem to be any guidance or instructions for people taking livestock across level crossings.
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/safety-in-the-community/level-crossing-safety/

duffield · 1 May 2019

Mutant Lemming said:
There doesn't seem to be any guidance or instructions for people taking livestock across level crossings.
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/safety-in-the-community/level-crossing-safety/

That's a bit of a simplified guide, doesn't mention long/slow vehicles either.

It's covered in the Highway Code though, under rule 294:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/road-works-level-crossings-and-tramways-288-to-307

Basically, phone signaller if instructed. I hope this would be obvious to anyone herding animals.

al78 · 1 May 2019

mpthomson said:
No they can't. The Highway Code is NOT legislation and can play no role in any prosecution.

Some parts do refer to road traffic law, those marked with MUST or MUST NOT.

Mutant Lemming · 1 May 2019

duffield said:
That's a bit of a simplified guide, doesn't mention long/slow vehicles either.

It's covered in the Highway Code though, under rule 294:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/road-works-level-crossings-and-tramways-288-to-307

Basically, phone signaller if instructed. I hope this would be obvious to anyone herding animals.

You would think so but if they aren't too fussed about their expensive machinery then maybe a few errant moo-ing things getting squashed wouldn't faze them too much.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/farmers-dicing-with-death-at-level-crossings/

Elecman · 1 May 2019

mpthomson said:
No they can't. The Highway Code is NOT legislation and can play no role in any prosecution.

It most certainly can as any approved code of practise can

bobbyrail · 1 May 2019

duffield said:
It's not legislation, but it *is* referenced in legislation; according to the Road Traffic Act 1988 its provisions can be used to establish liability or lack of liability in criminal and civil court.

Quoting from sub section 7 of section 38 of the RTA, link:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/38

(My emphasis added to relevant part):

"A failure on the part of a person to observe a provision of the Highway Code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind but any such failure may in any proceedings (whether civil or criminal, and including proceedings for an offence under the Traffic Acts, the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or sections 18 to 23 of the Transport Act 1985) be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings."

To me that sounds like a clear indication that it *can* have a role in a prosecution.

Similar to the matrix signs on the central reservation of a motorway, i was told on a speed awareness course that they carried no legal standing, but then they stated that however if you choose to ignore such signs advising of the maximum speed or lane restriction then you can be prosecuted for dangerous driving which carries a much stiffer penalty than 3 points. Always thought since then that it's better to treat them as obligatory.

A Challenge · 1 May 2019

bobbyrail said:
Similar to the matrix signs on the central reservation of a motorway, i was told on a speed awareness course that they carried no legal standing, but then they stated that however if you choose to ignore such signs advising of the maximum speed or lane restriction then you can be prosecuted for dangerous driving which carries a much stiffer penalty than 3 points. Always thought since then that it's better to treat them as obligatory.

This is drifting off topic a bit, but it appears to me that they are legally binding only if they are in a red circle (source: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Variable_Speed_Limit):

sabre-roads said:
In a typical motorway installation, overhead gantries are placed at regular and frequent intervals over the carriageway, with an electronic matrix sign mounted above each lane that is capable of showing a two-colour speed limit roundel. In full Smart Motorway installations, there will also be a matrix sign over the hard shoulder, and each matrix will also be capable of use as a lane indicator. In some later Smart Motorway installations in rural areas, there are no overhead gantries, and instead the speed limit is indicated only on a single MS4 matrix sign mounted at the roadside. The matrix signs are capable of showing a speed limit sign with any multiple of 10 between 20 and 60, plus a National Speed Limit sign when the system is not being used.

When the signs show a speed limit with a red circular border, the limit is legally binding, in the same way as a fixed speed limit indicated on a normal traffic sign. The signs are also capable of showing a speed limit without the red border, in which case the limit is only advisory. Typically, some of the gantries - at regular intervals - will have safety cameras mounted above each lane, connected to the speed limit system and capable of having their trigger speed adjusted in line with the indicated limit.

Also see here (source: http://bit.ly/2PFqwy6):

The M25 Motorway (Junctions 7 to 16) (Variable Speed Limits) Regulations 2012 said:
Variable speed limits
3.—(1) No person shall drive a vehicle on a section of a road which is
subject to a variable speed limit at a speed exceeding that indicated
by a speed limit sign.

(2) A section of a road is subject to a variable speed limit in
relation to a vehicle being driven along it if—

(a)the road is specified in the Schedule; .
(b)the vehicle has passed a speed limit sign; and .
(c)the vehicle has not subsequently passed— .
(i)another speed limit sign indicating a different speed limit; or .
(ii)a traffic sign which indicates that the national speed limit is in
force. .
(3) In relation to a vehicle, the speed limit indicated by a speed
limit sign is the speed shown at the time the vehicle passes the sign,
or, if higher, the speed limit shown by the sign ten seconds before
the vehicle passed the sign.

(4) For the purpose of this regulation, a speed limit sign is to be
taken as not indicating any speed limit if, ten seconds before the
vehicle passed it, the sign had indicated no speed limit or that the
national speed limit was in force

thejuggler · 2 May 2019

Hopefully once the full investigation into what has gone on at Welcome to Yorkshire is complete it will be the end of the Gary Verity ego trip - the Tour de Yorkshire.

OneOffDave · 2 May 2019

thejuggler said:
Hopefully once the full investigation into what has gone on at Welcome to Yorkshire is complete it will be the end of the Gary Verity ego trip - the Tour de Yorkshire.

Will be interesting to see how they replace the income it brings in if they do get rid of it

mpthomson · 2 May 2019

[

thejuggler said:
Hopefully once the full investigation into what has gone on at Welcome to Yorkshire is complete it will be the end of the Gary Verity ego trip - the Tour de Yorkshire.

Highly unlikely, Verity hasn't had any real involvement in TdY other than high level publicity/promotion and facilitation since TdF days and the first one thereafter. The real creator of the event is Christian Prudhomme, not Verity. It's organised by ASO, the same company who organise the Tour de France, not WTY. It brings in a huge amount of revenue (c£300m in 5 yrs) and is by some margin the largest sporting event in the UK in terms of spectator numbers (over 2million every year). It's been a huge success regionally, as well as for ASO and has demonstrably increased both tourist interest and revenue to the region. In short, it won't be going anywhere.

rich r · 3 May 2019

So my plan last night was to catch the 16:48 TPE from Leeds to Selby, which should get in at 17:11. Then nip across to the town centre to see the Tour de Yorkshire cyclists cross the line, expected around 17:30. Got as far as the first Thorpe Willoughby level crossing and we came to a stop. Announcement was that the Police and Network Rail had closed the crossing to trains to allow the cycle race to pass.
Hence my view of the race was a few glimpses of flashing blue lights and the tops of vehicles above hedges though a wet train window. Once the race and support vehicles had passed the second Thorpe Willoughby crossing, the train set off again, arriving in Selby 26 minutes late, about 5 minutes after the last of the peloton arrived. Ah well, I guess it was always a risk!

Tim_UK · 5 May 2019

mpthomson said:
Highly unlikely, Verity hasn't had any real involvement in TdY other than high level publicity/promotion and facilitation since TdF days and the first one thereafter. The real creator of the event is Christian Prudhomme, not Verity. It's organised by ASO, the same company who organise the Tour de France, not WTY. It brings in a huge amount of revenue (c£300m in 5 yrs) and is by some margin the largest sporting event in the UK in terms of spectator numbers (over 2million every year). It's been a huge success regionally, as well as for ASO and has demonstrably increased both tourist interest and revenue to the region. In short, it won't be going anywhere.

I was at the finish in Leeds today. Thousands of people around to watch. Not as many as the proper TDF in 2014 - that was mental.

The teams seem to have a lot of staff too. It's a big money sport.

Almost no disruption to most of the city centre. No problem getting in or out by road.

BRblue · 6 May 2019

rich r said:
So my plan last night was to catch the 16:48 TPE from Leeds to Selby, which should get in at 17:11. Then nip across to the town centre to see the Tour de Yorkshire cyclists cross the line, expected around 17:30. Got as far as the first Thorpe Willoughby level crossing and we came to a stop. Announcement was that the Police and Network Rail had closed the crossing to trains to allow the cycle race to pass.
Hence my view of the race was a few glimpses of flashing blue lights and the tops of vehicles above hedges though a wet train window. Once the race and support vehicles had passed the second Thorpe Willoughby crossing, the train set off again, arriving in Selby 26 minutes late, about 5 minutes after the last of the peloton arrived. Ah well, I guess it was always a risk!

And who picked up the delay minutes for that then?
I hope the race organisers because if that has gone against Network Rail (the taxpayer), I for one will not be very happy.
Especially as I have absolutely zero interest in cycle races and would not be expecting to subsidise them albeit indirectly.

mpthomson · 6 May 2019

BRblue said:
And who picked up the delay minutes for that then?
I hope the race organisers because if that has gone against Network Rail (the taxpayer), I for one will not be very happy.
Especially as I have absolutely zero interest in cycle races and would not be expecting to subsidise them albeit indirectly.

All arranged, including contingencies, approx 12 months in advance and agreed by ASO, Network Rail, police and the TOCs. This doesn't just happen randomly..... there's a huge amount of planning and next year's route is already known to those who need to know it. Your zero interest doesn't really dent the approx £60m that the race will have brought into the local economy this year, (it'll be slightly lower than hoped due to the dismal weather).

Worth noting that this year's has caused far less traffic issues than previously as they now use rolling roadblocks rather than outright closures.

rich r · 7 May 2019

I too have no issue with being delayed - other than the fact that I didn't get to see the race. Which to be fair I should really have taken an hour off work and got the previous train so I'd be in Selby before the road and rail closures took place.

Level Crossings and Cycle Races

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