Staff walkout at Manchester Vic last night (08/06)?

Bovverboy · 9 Jun 2019

404250 said:
If no train was cancelled there's nothing to moan about. They should check the train times in advance.

There was a major problem in mid-evening in the Deansgate/Piccadilly area, reported as a points failure, but I haven't managed to pinpoint it. This led to cancellations and delays of up to 111 (yes, 111) minutes. In addition there was already a set missing from the Liverpool-Wilmslow (Chat Moss) circuit meaning that the last departure from Piccadilly to Liverpool, the 2322, was not going to run. On Friday and Saturday nights there is a late train from Victoria at 2331 and I would imagine that prospective passengers would be directed to there. Unfortunately that was the train which ran 111L, at 0122. Several other trains, from Piccadilly, ran over 100 mins late.
Additionally TPE 1P40 (1944 Scarborough to Manchester Airport) managed to take 25 minutes to cover 0m09ch from Manchester Victoria East Junction to Victoria P3, and, as mentioned above, was terminated there, 25L. The return 1P47 (2319 Manchester Airport - York) was started at Victoria.

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bobbyrail · 9 Jun 2019

Trams every 12 mins minimum between Picc & Vic until 1am, don't immediately see what the problem is!!!
No long walk across the city centre etc needed.

Standing by to be corrected, (and i hope i am it will be a lesson to me)

Starmill · 9 Jun 2019

One does have to wonder why TransPennine Express still divert or part-cancel even late evening trains so that they no longer serve Manchester Piccadilly. Many people still use it in preference to Manchester Victoria, and many still seem to think that it's the main or best choice.

Amending the trains so that they don't serve Manchester Piccadilly as booked late at night like that is only going to lead to more problems than it solves.

bobbyrail said:
Trams every 12 mins minimum between Picc & Vic until 1am, don't immediately see what the problem is!!!

Did Northern or TransPennine Express arrange for tickets to be accepted by Metrolink? If they did, was that announced and shown on screens at the stations, and were station staff given up to date information on ticket acceptance for Metrolink?

Glenn1969 · 9 Jun 2019

Maybe the problem is not all train tickets are valid on the tram?

headshot119 · 9 Jun 2019

Starmill said:
One does have to wonder why TransPennine Express still divert or part-cancel even late evening trains so that they no longer serve Manchester Piccadilly. Many people still use it in preference to Manchester Victoria, and many still seem to think that it's the main or best choice.

Amending the trains so that they don't serve Manchester Piccadilly as booked late at night like that is only going to lead to more problems than it solves.

Did Northern or TransPennine Express arrange for tickets to be accepted by Metrolink? If they did, was that announced and shown on screens at the stations, and were station staff given up to date information on ticket acceptance for Metrolink?

There was a points failure in the Manchester Oxford Road area which left them with no other choice.

TUC · 9 Jun 2019

bobbyrail said:
Trams every 12 mins minimum between Picc & Vic until 1am, don't immediately see what the problem is!!!
No long walk across the city centre etc needed.

Standing by to be corrected, (and i hope i am it will be a lesson to me)

The journey is fairly slow, plus why should passengers be expected to pay extra just to be able to reach their train?

Aivilo · 9 Jun 2019

Sadly passing the buck is common practice on the railways. However it could be a simple case of intoxicated persons taking far longer to reach Victoria for said train.

Glad no staff were hurt as it could easily have been a very bad situation.

TUC · 9 Jun 2019

Aivilo said:
Sadly passing the buck is common practice on the railways. However it could be a simple case of intoxicated persons taking far longer to reach Victoria for said train.

Glad no staff were hurt as it could easily have been a very bad situation.

There would be just as likely to be other, sober passengers caught up in the railway’s lack of customer care.

TheSel · 9 Jun 2019

175001 said:
Yep
Piccadilly sent a load of angry drunk, drugged up Parklife crowd over to Vic to get the last trains towards Leeds, which had already long gone.

Staff were threatened with violence, and rightly so the staff walked away from it all.

Abuse will not be tolerated

I'd love to go to their place of work on a Monday morning and give them the level of abuse they gave my colleagues last night....

Really? So, let me get this right, you're saying that your colleagues being abused is not to be tolerated, but you giving it is not only OK, but actually something you'd love to do ??? I smell double standards here.

jon0844 · 9 Jun 2019

TheSel said:
Really? So, let me get this right, you're saying that your colleagues being abused is not to be tolerated, but you giving it is not only OK, but actually something you'd love to do ??? I smell double standards here.

I don't think 'I'd love to' should be taken in any way seriously. I took it as meaning 'I'd love to see how they'd like it if I did....'.

Glenn1969 · 9 Jun 2019

Maybe if the arrangements were known in time passengers should have been told to catch the 2318 stopper to Huddersfield to catch up with the altered York train? Or was that arrangement not possible? I'm disabled so in those circumstance would have chosen to do that or wait until the 0123

CHAPS2034 · 9 Jun 2019

Spartacus said:
Curious thing is that folk coming from Parklife probably came from Victoria in the 1st place, which perhaps wouldn't have helped their attitude.

The shuttle buses from Parklife were dropping off at Aytoun St a couple of minutes walk from Piccadilly. Metrolink were running double trams and extra services via Victoria.

bobbyrail said:
Trams every 12 mins minimum between Picc & Vic until 1am, don't immediately see what the problem is!!!

If you just miss one then a 12 minute wait and approx 10 minutes journey time to get to Vic, then a couple of minutes from the Metro platform onto the heavy rail platform. It is quicker to walk if you know where you are going - many won't have had a clue I guess, even if some were sober... 8-)

Hopefully TfGM will have an inquest into what worked and what didn't after the event and share the results and actions with all the transport companies...

Be interesting to see what happens tonight

TheSel · 9 Jun 2019

jon0844 said:
I don't think 'I'd love to' should be taken in any way seriously. I took it as meaning 'I'd love to see how they'd like it if I did....'.

Maybe - but unless the action [abuse] was enacted, one wouldn't know how they [the initial perpetrators] would react. Sorry - I don't think this approach is helpful or appropriate.

causton · 9 Jun 2019

TheSel said:
Maybe - but unless the action [abuse] was enacted, one wouldn't know how they [the initial perpetrators] would react. Sorry - I don't think this approach is helpful or appropriate.

Perhaps the humour is lost on someone who has not experienced it before, but often the only way to cope with the abuse by passengers is for frontline staff to make jokes like that.

One person makes a joke on an internet forum saying they would "like to" do those things.
Many, many people, turned up at Victoria and actually did these things to a level so bad staff walked out.

Which one should we treat with disgust?

TheSel · 9 Jun 2019

causton said:
Perhaps the humour is lost on someone who has not experienced it before, but often the only way to cope with the abuse by passengers is for frontline staff to make jokes like that.

One person makes a joke on an internet forum saying they would "like to" do those things.
Many, many people, turned up at Victoria and actually did these things to a level so bad staff walked out.

Which one should we treat with disgust?

All of them.

DanDaDriver · 9 Jun 2019

TheSel said:
All of them.

If I said I could “murder a pint,” would you call 999?

Ianno87 · 9 Jun 2019

TheSel said:
Really? So, let me get this right, you're saying that your colleagues being abused is not to be tolerated, but you giving it is not only OK, but actually something you'd love to do ??? I smell double standards here.

jon0844 said:
I don't think 'I'd love to' should be taken in any way seriously. I took it as meaning 'I'd love to see how they'd like it if I did....'.

TheSel said:
Maybe - but unless the action [abuse] was enacted, one wouldn't know how they [the initial perpetrators] would react. Sorry - I don't think this approach is helpful or appropriate.

My brother used to co-manage a bar, looking after the bar staff.

If someone got rowdy or abusive towards the staff, he would pull them aside and quietly make precisely that point; if the perpetrator worked in an office (say), whether they'd find it appropriate for somebody to walk in and yell abuse at them.

Most of the time, effective in calming things down. Beyond that, bouncers got involved, of course.

TheSel · 9 Jun 2019

DanDaDriver said:
If I said I could “murder a pint,” would you call 999?

I understand your point, and indeed, using humour to calm down a situation is often a good technique. Let's leave it there, rather than getting into the rights and wrongs of what actually constitutes an emergency, shall we?

jon0844 · 9 Jun 2019

TheSel said:
I understand your point, and indeed, using humour to calm down a situation is often a good technique. Let's leave it there, rather than getting into the rights and wrongs of what actually constitutes an emergency, shall we?

Perhaps we need to clarify that nobody was going to call 999 over hearing someone saying they could murder a pint, any more than finding out where a rowdy passenger works and turning up at their workplace.

noddingdonkey · 9 Jun 2019

Fair play to the staff concerned. I hope management are backing them up.

On a practical note, what happened about despatch of any remaining trains?

trainmananthon · 9 Jun 2019

Bovverboy said:
There was a major problem in mid-evening in the Deansgate/Piccadilly area, reported as a points failure, but I haven't managed to pinpoint it. This led to cancellations and delays of up to 111 (yes, 111) minutes. In addition there was already a set missing from the Liverpool-Wilmslow (Chat Moss) circuit meaning that the last departure from Piccadilly to Liverpool, the 2322, was not going to run. On Friday and Saturday nights there is a late train from Victoria at 2331 and I would imagine that prospective passengers would be directed to there. Unfortunately that was the train which ran 111L, at 0122. Several other trains, from Piccadilly, ran over 100 mins late.
Additionally TPE 1P40 (1944 Scarborough to Manchester Airport) managed to take 25 minutes to cover 0m09ch from Manchester Victoria East Junction to Victoria P3, and, as mentioned above, was terminated there, 25L. The return 1P47 (2319 Manchester Airport - York) was started at Victoria.

Points failure at the North end of Manchester Oxford Road station, putting platforms 1/2 out of use.

Also not helped by the fact two trains ended up conflicting each other near Ordsall (can’t remember which services), leading to one of them having to set back into Oxford Road.

Bovverboy · 9 Jun 2019

trainmananthon said:
Points failure at the North end of Manchester, putting platforms 1/2 out of use

Where's the North end of Manchester?

trainophile · 9 Jun 2019

RJ said:
If it was a small number of people they could maybe call taxis to get rid of them but a large number, close up shop and let them wait for the next scheduled service if there's a risk of further abuse. Good on them.

That's hardly fair on the taxi drivers, who are working alone.

Bletchleyite · 9 Jun 2019

Iskra said:
Top fishing.

I’m a Northerner in exile down South, and it’s something I’ve observed to be true in recent years and quite sad.

8J · 9 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I’m a Northerner in exile down South, and it’s something I’ve observed to be true in recent years and quite sad.

I'm also a Northerner in exile down south. You get good and bad everywhere. The problems in the North are different to what they are in the south. It's less happy stabby up north in general.

trainmananthon · 10 Jun 2019

Bovverboy said:
Where's the North end of Manchester?

Sorry I meant to put Manchester Oxford Road station. No idea what planet I was on when I wrote that! :lol:

RJ · 10 Jun 2019

trainophile said:
That's hardly fair on the taxi drivers, who are working alone.

Whilst some taxi drivers avoid working on Friday and Saturday nights, there are plenty who do and can handle the customers.

Bovverboy · 10 Jun 2019

trainmananthon said:
Points failure at the North end of Manchester Oxford Road station, putting platforms 1/2 out of use.

But presumably also forcing southbound trains to use the (usually) northbound track to access P3. The loss of P1 & P2 shouldn't have been any big deal, almost all southbound trains usually use P2 anyway, so forcing them to use P3 instead wouldn't have been such a great problem, I suspect. (Unless the exit from P3 conflicts with the opposite track, offhand I can't remember whether it does or not).

Also not helped by the fact two trains ended up conflicting each other near Ordsall (can’t remember which services), leading to one of them having to set back into Oxford Road.

Could you try and find a few details, do you think? It sounds a bit of a tall story, both in cause and consequence.

Xenophon PCDGS · 10 Jun 2019

jon0844 said:
I don't think 'I'd love to' should be taken in any way seriously. I took it as meaning 'I'd love to see how they'd like it if I did....'.

That reminds me of the Newcastle United manager making his feelings felt about Manchester United quite some years ago....

Scotrail84 · 10 Jun 2019

If they've not already got one then perhaps Northern Rail would benefit from an alcohol ban on all late night trains similar to the one ScotRail has. The consumption of alcohol is banned on all ScotRail services between 9pm and 10am, you can't have any open alcohol with you and any you may have in bags can't be in view either. You're also not allowed to travel if you're deemed unfit through alcohol. This is actively enforced by police and ScotRail staff, people are stopped going through barriers if they are drunk or have alcohol on them. It has seen alcohol related abuse and and anti social incidents reduced.

Staff walkout at Manchester Vic last night (08/06)?

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