Jordan Adam
Established Member
It's fairly well used, couldn't give you exact numbers but i see a fair amount of people using it.
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Why are so many people ashamed of riding the bus or walking?
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It's fairly well used, couldn't give you exact numbers but i see a fair amount of people using it.
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
On the money, Carl.
It's not a case of punitive taxation of private cars. However, politicians are busy increasing the costs for bus passengers through legislation (to achieve reduced pollution and improve public health which is a good thing) but at the same time, the use of a car is also becoming cheaper in real terms.
I rarely hear the opinion that travelling on buses or walking is embarrasing. Most people tend to think its a good thing.
The people i've met who think travelling by bus is embarrasing, and judge others for travelling by bus (or walking), tend to also be very judgmental about pretty much everything else. So I don't really respect their opinion.
The thing I hear more which annoys me is car drivers who think congestion is caused by too many buses on the road (how does their brain work? I'd really like to know), I remember someone in my area getting furious because of how frequent one of the bus routes is, because 'there is enough traffic already'.
Also those who think buses are not a green option because of the pollution they cause (when in fact, they are part of the solution, even diesel buses, which continue to get cleaner).
The people i've met who think travelling by bus is embarrasing, and judge others for travelling by bus (or walking), tend to also be very judgmental about pretty much everything else. So I don't really respect their opinion.
The thing I hear more which annoys me is car drivers who think congestion is caused by too many buses on the road (how does their brain work? I'd really like to know), I remember someone in my area getting furious because of how frequent one of the bus routes is, because 'there is enough traffic already'.
Also those who think buses are not a green option because of the pollution they cause (when in fact, they are part of the solution, even diesel buses, which continue to get cleaner).
I'm not ashamed of either, thanks.
In London buses are being pushed back into the traffic queue to give cyclists priority.
atraindriver
Member
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Gingerbus1991
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Well said Jordan!, There is most deffinetly a difference in those who live rurally to those who live within or on the outskirts of a city centre regarding even there opinion of a bus.
In my experience City Dwellers are far more customised to using public transport where as out of townies will generally use a car to drive to a train station going to town.
There certainly is a car-centric vibe to modern britain the way that everyone must have a car, that there isn't enough car parking spaces and that it's not fair to use LEZ in cities, of course making those using a car to the city are at a disadvantage, every new retail park I see gets a massive car park yet you've a 5 minute walk from the bus stop, New House builds are littered with parking spaces etc..
MANY, Many people though could still be using public transport(a bus) but view it as an inferior and almost dirty way at times to get about, I share that centament to a point, but would still rather take a walk to use a bus..
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Which is because it very often is. The experience of using it, particularly buses, is nowhere near as good as it should be.
Gingerbus1991
Member
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Exactly
There may be some people ashamed of walking, although I haven't heard of that myself. But people in the UK do actually walk quite a large proportion of trips by international standards because the non-car alternatives are so poor. British towns are relatively high density (despite constantly being told the opposite by everyone from petrol-heads to environmentalists) so distances are not that far, and segregated footpaths are the norm.
Very good points, wish there were more enlightened folk out there who thought like you.
I have met plenty of car drivers who winge about traffic clogging up places they wish to go but hey presto there not actually part of that problem. Once while cycling home from work a chap in a car called over to me and said "I've got a car, your just a saddo on a bike" I replied I'm not polluting the planet and I'm fitter than you. He was the size XXX shirt wearing bloke so a fair point.
Where I live the bus companies would'nt dare think of working together because that would mean sharing the profits which would be frowned on by any shareholders anyway.
Mike R
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
That's well and good but many people just don't feel that they're not being enlightened and they build their lives around the car. They make decisions then that are facilitated by car ownership - where they live, where they work, the school they send their children to, etc.
However, it should be about providing better options for public transport but we continually make it more difficult than it should be. I was driving on Tuesday from Clifton to Radstock - not a straightforward journey by bus but we're not going to replace that journey...it's the straightforward ones where substitution and modal shift can occur. Yet what did I see....
Talk of ticketing etc is focussing on details when there are more fundamental issues. I drove up along Spike Island where the metrobus route comes in from Long Ashton. There are limited bus lanes but only in peak and, out of peak, there are parking spaces in the bus lanes!!! In Totterdown, there are bus lanes, some time dependent and others 24 hr and they both had cars parked in them. We don't enforce and it doesn't look like we value our buses. If buses are stuck in the same traffic as everyone else (no time advantage) and car travel is advantaged financially (by fuel duty freezes) whilst buses are disadvantaged through legislative changes that increase that price disparity, then the benefits of bus travel are eroded.
That's before you get onto the issue of perception. I remember a journey on the 54 last year from Yeovil to Taunton where some poor girl (c.18 yrs old) was being talked to by some half cut, one armed alcoholic - harmless enough but just substantiates the stereotype of Jasper Carrott's nutter on the bus.
I don’t like buses (in suburbia) because I remember them being slow, dirty, noisy, uncomfortable (rough ride, lots of binary driving) and full of people I don’t want to be in close contact with.
I know that sounds horribly snobbish but it is self perpetuating. Just needs a handful of smelly old people, gobby chavs, and young mums with sweary complaints/nasty gossip for them to be the only passengers you remember.
Should be better now with better buses, a phone I can plug earphones into, PIS displays so you don’t have to worry about missing your stop through the dirty windows covered in condensation......but buses will always be tainted with memories from my youth.
Two things that would make a massive difference would be a single app with all bus services on (as well known and easy as National Rail Enquires one) and knowing every single bus takes contactless cards - I have heard some don’t give change and I have no idea what fares are.
Apologies if this is all very ignorant and insulting to some but the question was asked.....and frankly if buses are to thrive I am the sort of person that needs to be won over - I would rather walk four miles than get a bus.
I know that sounds horribly snobbish but it is self perpetuating. Just needs a handful of smelly old people, gobby chavs, and young mums with sweary complaints/nasty gossip for them to be the only passengers you remember.
Should be better now with better buses, a phone I can plug earphones into, PIS displays so you don’t have to worry about missing your stop through the dirty windows covered in condensation......but buses will always be tainted with memories from my youth.
Two things that would make a massive difference would be a single app with all bus services on (as well known and easy as National Rail Enquires one) and knowing every single bus takes contactless cards - I have heard some don’t give change and I have no idea what fares are.
Apologies if this is all very ignorant and insulting to some but the question was asked.....and frankly if buses are to thrive I am the sort of person that needs to be won over - I would rather walk four miles than get a bus.
Greybeard33
Established Member
Google Maps navigation function is pretty good for planning public transport journeys, including changes between modes and between bus operators. If you have a smartphone, it will show progress along the bus route, and warn you two stops in advance when to get off. When changing, it will guide you on the walk between the bus stops. There are options to prefer one mode (bus/train/tram/underground) and to choose best route/fewer changes/less walking/wheelchair accessible.
Many buses now have GPS tracking to give realtime updates of departure time, rather than relying on the timetable. Contactless payment is becoming pretty much universal in my experience.
It depends what you call "contactless". In almost all cases, you are still buying a paper ticket from the driver. The only difference is you are using a bank card instead of cash, so it still involves a time wasting conversation with the driver.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
You know quite well what "contactless payment" means!
Many people are familiar with how contactless work in London and wouldn't mind it working the same way elsewhere.
scotrail158713
Established Member
It’s the one area where Lothian Buses are letting themselves down - contactless has been “coming this year” since 2016.
For some people though that is enough to persuade them to take the bus. Contactless has just been made an option on my parents local bus route and they’re now taking the bus more than they ever have before - purely because they no longer need exact change.
But they've had smartcard payment for many years, which doesn't involve driver interaction. Buying a paper ticket from the driver is less desirable, even if it doesn't involve cash.
scotrail158713
Established Member
In my opinion, the smartcards are useless as they only hold their value for a certain amount of time and can only be topped up in certain places. I would also say that most people I know want contactless payments not so they don’t get a paper ticket - but because they don’t want to have to carry correct change. I appreciate it may not be the same across the country though.
The whole point of using smartcards and other prepaid tickets is so that the driver doesn't need to spend time issuing a ticket. Buying the ticket from the driver may be convenient but if everyone does it, it means a slow journey, which deters usage. The additional time may mean extra costs for the bus company, for example additional vehicles and drivers, meaning higher fares, reduced frequency, deterring even more usage. Only a very small percentage of passengers should need to buy a ticket on the bus. If that percentage is small, then buying from the driver is not such a problem and there is no need to impose such draconian rules such as no change.
Not bothered by a smart card, I wouldn’t use it enough and it’s a barrier to entry (ie you have to have bothered to get one before you one day think “wonder if I could get the bus today”. Just don’t want to have to worry about change and the risk of paying £20 for a bus ride!
The point about google maps is interesting but I wouldn’t trust it. If it was known to use a source that bus companies were forced to keep updated then maybe.
The point about google maps is interesting but I wouldn’t trust it. If it was known to use a source that bus companies were forced to keep updated then maybe.
Mobile phone tickets should in theory be a good option for infrequent travellers. Unfortunately, many operators only offer them for day tickets or longer and not singles.
It is very disappointing that whilst bus companies continue to plead with councils and the government to clear traffic from bus routes, they can't even be bothered to optimise boarding times which are fully in their control.
It is very disappointing that whilst bus companies continue to plead with councils and the government to clear traffic from bus routes, they can't even be bothered to optimise boarding times which are fully in their control.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It does mean two different things. In London it means boarding is as quick as it is on a conductor operated service, near enough. On most provincial services that take it, it's quicker and more convenient than cash (and so will increase bus usage among younger people) but doesn't save quite as much time.
Touch in, touch out (with the penalty for not touching out being simply to be charged the maximum fare for that route) is the way to get London-style benefits on provincial routes and is the next logical step. I believe Trent might already have done it?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Contactless is a killer app, to be honest. No need to faff with mobile phones, unless using it as a payment device.
I often pay for parking in MK via the app, but having paid at a machine in Ambleside using contactless recently I hugely prefer that. Press a button enough times for the number of hours desired, tap card, put ticket in windscreen - dead easy.
One operator (I can't remember which one) put a video of buying a paper ticket using contactless on YouTube a while ago and I think I timed it at about 9 seconds per transaction. So probably only marginally quicker than paying the driver in exact fare on a change giving bus and maybe even slower than exact fare buses. This is assuming no debate with the driver about what ticket is required. I think buying a paper ticket using contactless is acceptable only if a small minority of passengers use it.
Their sister company Kinchbus currently advertise it on their Skylink service
https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/trentbartoncontactless
says it will be rolled out to Kinchbus fully this summer and Trent Barton in the autumn.
Greybeard33
Established Member
I believe Google uses open data feeds from the transport operators where available, or online timetable data otherwise. Plus algorithms that learn from the real experience of tracking millions of smartphone users.
Clearly you have not used the app. I use it regularly and find it surprisingly accurate. Not perfect, but neither are NRE and the other rail planners.
If you choose not to try it, the loss is yours.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I would agree - I personally find it really useful. It knows about pretty much all operators, and does realtime in most towns too.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Isn't the point of offering contactless more for passenger convenience rather than speeding up journey times...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Speeding up journey times is one of the best things you can do for passenger convenience (and - bonus - it saves operators money too if they can use it to reduce the PVR). The main problem with buses, I'd argue, is that they are way too slow, and the main reason for that is the need to discuss an individual financial transaction every time one boards. It's very evident if you go to London that if you remove that things move much, much quicker - a typical London bus only stops at each stop for about 10-20 seconds, not well over a minute like in the provinces.
If your routes often drop off and pick up at the same stops along the way, add a set of centre doors and that's another 10 seconds off per stop, too.
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