Northern 158 air-con still not working in hot weather

superkev · 1 Jul 2019

stj said:
Have the same problem at work in our Offices, staff open the windows in warm weather and look at me stupid
when asking them to close them to let the AC do its job.AC fitted trains should not have opening windows as its an excuse not to maintain/operate the AC.Lucky that most trains have sealed windows.

Engineer Ian Warmsley made that point in modern railways magazine a while back. It's too easy for hard pressed maintenance staff to ignore faults as they can always open those almost useless vents. It will also stop conductors opening them incorrectly or when pressurised by some fresh air focused passengers so forcing a working system to wear itself out trying to cool the world.
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43096 · 1 Jul 2019

Parallel said:
Both GWR and TfW have had a lot of 158s running around with the hopper windows open within the last week or so. Really should be some major work to sort this once the PRM deadline has gone, especially as none are expected to be completely retired any time soon.

Biggest issue is the staff (specifically guards) rather than the kit itself, as discussed above. I will caveat this with your example as GWR is a WorstGroup franchise and "run to fail" is the default rather than proactive maintenance.

scotraildriver · 1 Jul 2019

One of the big problems with our 158s is the requirement to allow the system to pump down. At the end of the day with lots of trains coming onto.the depot it is simply not feasible to sit and wait 10 or 15 minutes to allow the pump down and engines to stop. Trains arrive at the fuel point and fuelling needs to start immediately, not 15 minutes later. We have around 10 158s onto depot between 23.30 and 00.30. Waiting 15 mins for each unit to shut down wastes 2 and a half hours every night and creates a huge backlog of trains getting into the depot. As a result units get shut down immediately which causes problems for the air con. A system that requires this pump down period should never have been signed off in the first place. Class 170s don't have this requirement.

matacaster · 1 Jul 2019

I don't know what system is used on 185's, but it is very reliable and effective.
Why?

LowLevel · 1 Jul 2019

Massively overpowered 750hp engines per coach on a 185 (versus 350 or 400 for a 158) combined with an extra 15 years of innovation and development. They're 2 generations apart. A 158 barely produces enough power to do everything it needs to in a mediocre fashion.

matacaster said:
I don't know what system is used on 185's, but it is very reliable and effective.
Why?

mark-h · 1 Jul 2019

scotraildriver said:
One of the big problems with our 158s is the requirement to allow the system to pump down. At the end of the day with lots of trains coming onto.the depot it is simply not feasible to sit and wait 10 or 15 minutes to allow the pump down and engines to stop.

Can the air-con be pumped down with the engines running? If this was done when arriving at the terminal station then the system should have be fully pumped down by the time the train reaches the depot.

aleggatta · 2 Jul 2019

scotraildriver said:
One of the big problems with our 158s is the requirement to allow the system to pump down. At the end of the day with lots of trains coming onto.the depot it is simply not feasible to sit and wait 10 or 15 minutes to allow the pump down and engines to stop. Trains arrive at the fuel point and fuelling needs to start immediately, not 15 minutes later. We have around 10 158s onto depot between 23.30 and 00.30. Waiting 15 mins for each unit to shut down wastes 2 and a half hours every night and creates a huge backlog of trains getting into the depot. As a result units get shut down immediately which causes problems for the air con. A system that requires this pump down period should never have been signed off in the first place. Class 170s don't have this requirement.

mark-h said:
Can the air-con be pumped down with the engines running? If this was done when arriving at the terminal station then the system should have be fully pumped down by the time the train reaches the depot.

Generally, air con doesn't need to 'pump down'. Normally the damage occurs when the compressor is turned off and it tries to run up before the gasses have had a chance to settle in the system (May not be exactly correct but that's the principal of it is there). The reason the Turbostar's don't have this issue is they have a start up delay, to enable the gasses to settle before the compressor runs up again, and I imagine this would be something relatively easy to fit to 158's to prevent run up until a set time period of downtime (this would have to work even after being aux'd off to provide full protection to the AC unit)

Llama · 3 Jul 2019

The pump-down of the air con needs the engines to be running, but it doesn't take 10-15 minutes, only a minute or two. Press a cab engine stop button briefly and as soon as the air con has done its business it shuts down. Whenever I berth one of Northern's 158s I usually hear the engines stop as I am walking away.

Adsy125 · 3 Jul 2019

I’m not sure why there is such a desire on here for all trains to be sealed permanently. I was on a 444 on a 30° day, and the power was turned off in the New Forest due to a trespasser. We were waiting for around an hour, and ended up roasting, so much so the guard opened the rear cab door, and gangway door to try and cool it down a bit. Either trains should be able to continue running the AC for an hour or so on batteries, or should have some passive cooling (opening windows!)

kevjs · 3 Jul 2019

LowLevel said:
A 158 barely produces enough power to do everything it needs to in a mediocre fashion.

Is that why they start to get warmer when accelerating and then hold temperature when going at a steady speed or stopped? (At least on East Midlands Trains' ones).

greyman42 · 4 Jul 2019

Polarbear said:
Air con on 158’s has never been their strong point.

I find that the EMT 158s tend to be a bit on the cool side, so the aircooling may be better on these than Northerns.

Polarbear · 6 Jul 2019

greyman42 said:
I find that the EMT 158s tend to be a bit on the cool side, so the aircooling may be better on these than Northerns.

The EMT refurbishment was pretty thorough, and a good job was done. I suspect the air con may have been replaced with a beefed up version at the same time.

Geoff DC · 6 Jul 2019

Snowflakes: you'v never travelled on the Hejaz Raiway

Northern 158 air-con still not working in hot weather

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