pdeaves
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OK, understood, thanks.
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SouthEastern franchise direct award through to 1 April 2020 (& franchise competition terminated)
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Yes and becoming available shortly if you are interested. If they are good enough for the North...
4-SUB 4732
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There’s a fleet of ~42 (?) 365s available for quick conversion if we do something sensible like move the 379s onto GN (as the stored ones number 20 or so). If we seem desperate we can definitely do something - even if it means starting to transfer 455s over as SWR new stuff comes online!
HamworthyGoods
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40 x 365s remaining (1 was written off).
Where are the 379s coming from? They are staying on lease with GA.
Chiltern006
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There is always the 7 car 345s that are in storage...
4-SUB 4732
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Well you say that, but they aren’t. They’re being displaced by Aventra eventually...
brad465
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As much as the franchise area needs new stock, there is nowhere to store anything else at the moment, unless it replaces something already there.
If we're transferring 455s over then we really are desperate; even if their reliability is better than Networkers, they are 10 years older. 365s would fit better into the area given the history, but I doubt anyone wants to do the conversion/re-conversion modifications needed for that.
HamworthyGoods
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379s are staying with GA for Now, they no longer have a return to lease plan instead the lease has been renegotiated.
Most in part to the fact that the aventras come in 5 and 10 car formations, neither being suitable for Hertford East which requires multiples of 4 cars without extensive remodelling (which has now been shelved from the original franchise plans).
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Robertj21a
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So, still nothing official from the government ?
Agreed - There is no stabling or maintenance space for extra stock, the 377s are still maintained by GTR for this reason!!!
Starting to address this under a future diract award is probably the most useful thing that could happen.
455 are too sluggish to keep to Networker timings so a non starter.
On 365001 - 016 were originally 3rd rail fitted the rest weren't. The 365s may also be geared differently so a bigger job that you would expect.
One of SE biggest performance issues are dwell times and capacity neither of which are helped by Networker door widths and internal layout.
I can't find any mention of them in this thread but surely for the SE metro services the SWR class 707s would be a good fit (when they become available). Like the class 700s, they are serious people movers designed for the shortest dwells. They might need loos fitting but a 10-car pair of them would have a crush load capacity of nearly 1500 and an ability to load/unload about 1/3 of them in a sub one-minute dwell. There's only 30 of them around but they are a current design so presumably additional units could still be procured.
The 707s have lower power : weight ratio than the DC networkers so might not match existing timings. they will deal with passenger numbers well but there is still the stabling and maintenance issue.
The 707s don't meet the criteria for passenger loadings in the franchise tender so would be a short term measure, plenty of previous discussion on that.
And also 10 car when more 12 car is needed.
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IceAgeComing
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I've recently moved to North London so no longer have to deal with Southeastern but something certainly needs to be done there in terms of extra capacity and new stock for metro lines. I had already noticed some shortening of trains (from 10 to 8 and 8 to 6) which might be because of the disability access stuff but I don't really know for sure but the potential of that at already busy times is already incredibly annoying. Before moving to Archway I'd always try and aim for the Thameslink trains on the Woolwich line since I thought that they were nicer places to be (more room to stand if its busy especially in the aisle; the first class sections have tables and plugs which can be handy on a 40 minute journey if not essential) and that isn't an option that a lot of people have nor is it overly reliable because, well, its Thameslink.
SteveOfTheStow
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Since Desiro City is only recent, I reckon 707s could be broken up and reformed into a higher power train (with new TOPS code) using some new cars. TMS would need to be upgraded but the 700 one has been largely battled-tested now. Up to a ROSCO to fund it, but if 707s can't find work after Aventras come in it might be the best option.
Agreed - the cheapest solution might be to target Southern 313 replacement on the Coastway services but too many for that alone.
Given the shortage of 12 car 700s, a more complex deal might actually use some of the 707 cars to lenghten so of the 8car 700s to 12 car (just 1 car from each would provide 7.5 extra 12 car units)
Mikey C
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It does seem unfortunate that the Thameslink service is an 8 car one rather than a 12 car one. Fine off peak, but a waste during the rush hour
Which is why new rolling stock with ASDO is needed.
The problems stations are Charing Cross (some platforms) and Woolwich Dockyard which are both easily solved with ASDO (as the ASDO on the 375s already does at Charing Cross)
Yes...
What will happen in April next year then? Further direct award or OLR maybe?
Bromley boy
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The platforms are long enough, but twelve car trains are prohibited on the mid Kent due to power supply restrictions (mentioned on here recently, somewhere).
Networker formations have actually been lengthened recently, as the cascade of 377s from TL enabled some 465/9s to be redeployed to metro work.
Orpington - Victoria services (for example) are now generally* eight cars in the peaks whereas previously there were quite a few sixes knocking about.
*barring stock defects etc.
Class 466
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1 12 car Networker runs down to Hayes every weekday... And the line can take multiple 12 car 375s at any given time when the Hastings Services are diverted via New Beckenham, so I'm not too sure where that myth has come from. The reason there aren't more 12s down there is that there's not enough stock!
Jorge Da Silva
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We don’t know. They say that they will take in Williams recommendations but all options will be assessed.
Bromley boy
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Having just checked the SA - you’re quite right - apologies - 12 car networkers are indeed permitted to Hayes.
They are restricted via the New Beckenham spur which is perhaps where the misunderstanding has come from.
That’ll teach me to believe things I’ve been told second hand without checking!
theageofthetra
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Are they? Into the bay, fair enough but why not round onto the down?
Thanks
I didn't realise there was a daily 12 car down it. A 12 car suburban network would be wonderful.
The restriction is between The spur and Petts Wood Jn.
Bromley boy
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Not allowed on the Chathams full stop by the looks of things. From the horse’s mouth:
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