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Cardiff to Trowbridge Anytime Return

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ValleyLines142

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Morning,

Just wanted to check where I stand in this situation.

On Thursday I bought an Anytime Return from Cardiff to Trowbridge, which involved a break of journey at Bath. I waited on the platform at Cardiff but noticed there were substantial delays around Bath due to trespassers. I was worried about getting back so I decided to abandon my journey altogether and came over yesterday instead. I went back down to the ticket barriers at Cardiff and explained to the gateline assistant the situation, to which she allowed me back out without any issue.

As my outbound portion of my ticket had until yesterday (12th) as validity, I used my train ticket yesterday on the same journey. Upon exiting at Bath, my ticket was rejected, on the grounds that it had been previously used. I explained to the gateline assistant at Bath the situation as above, to which she went to the office and came back with a report on my train ticket, which made absolutely ZERO sense to me as it was all in codes etc. I exited at Temple Meads briefly to have a smoke outside the station on my way to Bath and had no issues there, so I have no clue as to why there was a problem when I left at Bath.

To conclude, I was then taken to the other side of the station and made to pay for another Anytime Return. I politely but firmly said I'm not paying again because this ticket hasn't been used on any train journey. I was then told to keep my old train ticket and to apply for a refund, which is a bit inconvenient as I didn't bring that much money out with me (in short I basically transfer all of my wages to a separate bank account, otherwise I'll blow the lot because I'm a terrible budgeter), so I was left with hardly any money for the rest of my trip, and I sometimes stay with friends in Trowbridge depending on my plans, hence the Anytime Return. I was then allowed to leave and subsequently ended up missing my bus to Bitton.

Whilst the gateline staff at Bath were polite and seemingly apologetic (whether they meant it or not remains a different story), the only part that irritated me slightly was the fact that the gateline staff were just strolling along towards me, bearing in mind that I politely stated that I'm in a bit of a rush.

I guess the issue here is proving that my train ticket hasn't been used. The truth is that I abandoned my journey at Cardiff once I was on the platform and returned outside, so I imagine the problem is that on Thursday the barriers have registered my ticket as a starting journey. Can I get them to access CCTV at Cardiff to show me exiting the station? I've now paid £34 in train fares and I'm not exactly Alan Sugar when it comes to income!

Thanks in advance!
 
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cuccir

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To be clear:

1. You held a Cardiff to Trowbridge Anytime Return for Thursday 8th. You arrived at Cardiff station but abandoned your journey without travelling because of disruption
2. You then attempted to make your journey on Monday 12th using the same ticket. During that journey you briefly broke your journey at Bristol Temple Meads
3. You attempted to also break your journey at Bath, but were refused to do so and made to buy another Cardiff to Trowbridge Anytime Return
4. You used the return half of your original ticket to travel from Trowbridge to Cardiff on the evening of the 12th

If I've understood this correctly, you have nothing to prove and you should submit a complaint to Great Western Railway with a request for a full refund of your new ticket, and a request that staff are better trained in ticketing terms and conditions.

On your Anytime Return ticket you have the right to break your journey as many times as you want, as long as you don't double back or travel over the same bit of your route twice. This is in the Terms and Conditions of your ticket. That you used your ticket at the gate-line at Cardiff Central on the 8th is not relevant (1) as you didn't actually travel and (2) even if you had travelled from Cardiff that day, you would have been in your rights to have broken your journey on the 8th and resumed it on the 12th: so evidence of having used the ticket at Cardiff on the 8th is not evidence that you couldn't have also been using it at Bath on the 12th.

--
Edit - just to add: I wouldn't include any of my point 2 in a complaint letter as it complicates matters. I just added it as an explanation as to why you shouldn't worry about being 'found out' as to having used your ticket on the 8th. You can also, until Thursday, access details via RealTimeTrains of the trains that were running on the 8th. To support your story I'd use this to confirm now the details of which train you were intending to catch and where it was cancelled; take a screenshot of the cancelled service.
 
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ValleyLines142

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2011
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6,851
Location
Gloucester
To be clear:

1. You held a Cardiff to Trowbridge Anytime Return for Thursday 8th. You arrived at Cardiff station but abandoned your journey without travelling because of disruption
2. You then attempted to make your journey on Monday 12th using the same ticket. During that journey you briefly broke your journey at Bristol Temple Meads
3. You attempted to also break your journey at Bath, but were refused to do so and made to buy another Cardiff to Trowbridge Anytime Return
4. You used the return half of your original ticket to travel from Trowbridge to Cardiff on the evening of the 12th

If I've understood this correctly, you have nothing to prove and you should submit a complaint to Great Western Railway with a request for a full refund of your new ticket, and a request that staff are better trained in ticketing terms and conditions.

On your Anytime Return ticket you have the right to break your journey as many times as you want, as long as you don't double back or travel over the same bit of your route twice. This is in the Terms and Conditions of your ticket. That you used your ticket at the gate-line at Cardiff Central on the 8th is not relevant (1) as you didn't actually travel and (2) even if you had travelled from Cardiff that day, you would have been in your rights to have broken your journey on the 8th and resumed it on the 12th: so evidence of having used the ticket at Cardiff on the 8th is not evidence that you couldn't have also been using it at Bath on the 12th.

--
Edit - just to add: I wouldn't include any of my point 2 in a complaint letter as it complicates matters. I just added it as an explanation as to why you shouldn't worry about being 'found out' as to having used your ticket on the 8th. You can also, until Thursday, access details via RealTimeTrains of the trains that were running on the 8th. To support your story I'd use this to confirm now the details of which train you were intending to catch and where it was cancelled; take a screenshot of the cancelled service.

In short, yes. Thank you for your detail reply. I am in work at the moment but I'll reply properly later!
 

ValleyLines142

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Location
Gloucester
To be clear:

1. You held a Cardiff to Trowbridge Anytime Return for Thursday 8th. You arrived at Cardiff station but abandoned your journey without travelling because of disruption.

Correct.

cuccir said:
2. You then attempted to make your journey on Monday 12th using the same ticket. During that journey you briefly broke your journey at Bristol Temple Meads.

Correct.

cuccir said:
3. You attempted to also break your journey at Bath, but were refused to do so and made to buy another Cardiff to Trowbridge Anytime Return.

Correct.

cuccir said:
4. You used the return half of your original ticket to travel from Trowbridge to Cardiff on the evening of the 12th.

Correct. I actually had two tickets for that journey, technically!

cuccir said:
If I've understood this correctly, you have nothing to prove and you should submit a complaint to Great Western Railway with a request for a full refund of your new ticket, and a request that staff are better trained in ticketing terms and conditions.

On your Anytime Return ticket you have the right to break your journey as many times as you want, as long as you don't double back or travel over the same bit of your route twice. This is in the Terms and Conditions of your ticket. That you used your ticket at the gate-line at Cardiff Central on the 8th is not relevant (1) as you didn't actually travel and (2) even if you had travelled from Cardiff that day, you would have been in your rights to have broken your journey on the 8th and resumed it on the 12th: so evidence of having used the ticket at Cardiff on the 8th is not evidence that you couldn't have also been using it at Bath on the 12th.

--
Edit - just to add: I wouldn't include any of my point 2 in a complaint letter as it complicates matters. I just added it as an explanation as to why you shouldn't worry about being 'found out' as to having used your ticket on the 8th. You can also, until Thursday, access details via RealTimeTrains of the trains that were running on the 8th. To support your story I'd use this to confirm now the details of which train you were intending to catch and where it was cancelled; take a screenshot of the cancelled service.

Interesting. Thank you very much for that detailed reply.

I don't know whether to take up a separate complaint for how it was handled at Bath. I was there for almost twenty minutes, was given no apology for the wait (only for the fact I had to buy a new ticket, and even then that was only because I complained there and then, otherwise I wouldn't have got one in the first place) and they were just casually strolling along.

On a side note, I've been applying for a number of jobs with GWR. I don't know whether making a complaint would be wise as they'd recognise my name!
 

WesternLancer

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Correct.



Correct.



Correct.



Correct. I actually had two tickets for that journey, technically!



Interesting. Thank you very much for that detailed reply.

I don't know whether to take up a separate complaint for how it was handled at Bath. I was there for almost twenty minutes, was given no apology for the wait (only for the fact I had to buy a new ticket, and even then that was only because I complained there and then, otherwise I wouldn't have got one in the first place) and they were just casually strolling along.

On a side note, I've been applying for a number of jobs with GWR. I don't know whether making a complaint would be wise as they'd recognise my name!
Pretty shocking to read these staff did not know that a ticket such as yours entitles break of journeys as explained by cuccir. This is basic 'conditions of travel' stuff and has been for years - page 13 of this I think
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/46427.aspx

Obv you would have to know this, but if what happened to you happened to me I would have attempted to demand the staff go to the ticket office, obtain a Conditions of Travel booklet (they certainly used to be required to stock them) and get them to read it! Since the gateline staff you mentioned were happy to go to the ticket office to get a report on your ticket they ought to have been happy to oblige....

As an aside, if you choose to not take a journey due to disruption etc you are entitled to a full refund. With an anytime rtn there is no reason to buy ahead or on line (apart from to avoid a queue) so if you buy it juts before travel at the station, and then get to the platform and find out about disruption, you can go straight back to the ticket office for your money back. Then of course buy a new ticket the day you are going instead.

In fact - what kind of training for staff with ticket checking duties would NOT involve reading and being tested on pages 11-14 of the Conditions of Travel - it's only 3 and bit pages long?
 

RPI

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I apologise if I've missed something, the outward ticket was for the 8th but you didn't travel, you then attempted to use the same ticket on the 12th? If it was the outward portion then this wasn't valid, you would have been entitled to a refund straight away however unless it was endorsed the outward portion of an Anytime return is only valid for two days.
 

Haywain

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I apologise if I've missed something, the outward ticket was for the 8th but you didn't travel, you then attempted to use the same ticket on the 12th? If it was the outward portion then this wasn't valid, you would have been entitled to a refund straight away however unless it was endorsed the outward portion of an Anytime return is only valid for two days.
Are you a real RPI? If you are you show a shocking lack of knowledge - the outward portion of an Anytime return is valid for 5 days.
 

gaillark

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I apologise if I've missed something, the outward ticket was for the 8th but you didn't travel, you then attempted to use the same ticket on the 12th? If it was the outward portion then this wasn't valid, you would have been entitled to a refund straight away however unless it was endorsed the outward portion of an Anytime return is only valid for two days.

I normally buy anytime returns. For longer distance journeys outward portions of anytime returns are valid for five days.
Anytime singles are valid for two days.

It seems that DanMan185's outward ticket should have been valid for five days.
 

gaillark

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I do hope you don't ever need to travel between London and Manchester.....
I do sometimes. If I travel early I buy a 1st single £242 then on the return get an off peak 1st single at £155 which saves me £87 on this route otherwise it's an off peak return at £310.
The fare to Manchester is more than my monthly mortgage payment!
 

WesternLancer

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I apologise if I've missed something, the outward ticket was for the 8th but you didn't travel, you then attempted to use the same ticket on the 12th? If it was the outward portion then this wasn't valid, you would have been entitled to a refund straight away however unless it was endorsed the outward portion of an Anytime return is only valid for two days.

well the link in the 1st reply takes you to this:

When and where the ticket can be used
Anytime Day (Single and Return) tickets must be used on the date shown on your ticket and up to 04:29 the following day.

Anytime Single must be used within 2 days of the date shown on the ticket and up until 04:29 after the last day of validity.

For Anytime Return tickets, the outward journey must be made within 5 days and up until 04:29 after the last day of validity; the return portion must be used within one calendar month and up until 04:29 after the last day of validity.

(my underlining)
And the OP states it was a Return, not Day Return

In fact I think these tickets actually state the date they are valid until on them don't they? If so it would be both unambiguous to the ticket holder and any staff looking at it - and indeed would lead someone to think that, had they bought such a ticket, and chosen not to travel, they could use the ticket on a subsequent day and had no need to bother faffing around getting a refund they did not require.

In fact only someone experienced enough in using UK rail system would be aware that there is always a risk of encountering poorly trained staff who erroneously attempt to enforce incorrect regulations to the passengers disadvantage - even when, as in this case, the passenger (apart from if they had opted for 1st class) has bought the most expensive ticket available to them and might therefore expect both good and knowledgeable customer service as well as maximum usage flexibility.
 

RPI

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Sorry, blonde moment, I knew I was missing something blatant, I was thinking Anytime Single (2 days). As you were
 

Hadders

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I do sometimes. If I travel early I buy a 1st single £242 then on the return get an off peak 1st single at £155 which saves me £87 on this route otherwise it's an off peak return at £310.
The fare to Manchester is more than my monthly mortgage payment!

I'd never, ever pay that sort of money to travel by train and I spend thousands every year across the country, on business and leisure at peak times as well as off peak.
 

bnm

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Sorry, blonde moment, I knew I was missing something blatant, I was thinking Anytime Single (2 days). As you were

One would hope you don't have similar moments when writing someone up for an alleged ticket irregularity. Very basic stuff to know validities. As is reading a thread before replying.
 

LordCreed

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One would hope you don't have similar moments when writing someone up for an alleged ticket irregularity. Very basic stuff to know validities. As is reading a thread before replying.

I'm not really sure that was necessary... Everyone can misread things and make mistakes.
 

bnm

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I'm not really sure that was necessary... Everyone can misread things and make mistakes.
There are half a dozen mentions of 'Anytime Return' before RPI replied. Were they all misread?
 
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