Stagecoach North Scotland (Bluebird and Highland)

GusB · 12 Jul 2019

GregA said:
Ah, well it certainly gets a variety of vehicles, doesn't it!

The article mentions that they have been running one of the rail replacement services between Huntly and Dyce; this got me thinking about the use of rail replacement bus services in general.
I don't know if this is the case for everywhere but from my experience, rail replacement services always use big 50 (or thereabouts) seater coaches, even for short runs like Inverurie to Dyce or Aberdeen. Surley vehicles like the new XLBs which Lothian have would be better suited to this type of work?

The XLBs have 100 seats in them which means you'd need fewer buses to operate the rail replacement service

Boarding and alighting times could be reduced by using both doors at the same time (in my experience tickets are usually not checked on boarding the rail replacement service)

The XLBs are low-floor which would make it easier for mobility-impared people, or parents with prams, to board the service

I'm not suggesting that Lothian make their XLBs availabile for hire as rail replacement buses, but more that these types of vehicles would be more suitable. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

This is probably going to drag the thread off-topic, and there have been a few threads on Rail Replacement services, but you'd need to bear in mind that for some coach firms, RR work is only a small part of what they do, and they'd likely be unable to find a use for an XLB-type vehicle at any other time.

RailUK Forums

Jordan Adam · 13 Jul 2019

GregA said:
The article mentions that they have been running one of the rail replacement services between Huntly and Dyce; this got me thinking about the use of rail replacement bus services in general.
I don't know if this is the case for everywhere but from my experience, rail replacement services always use big 50 (or thereabouts) seater coaches, even for short runs like Inverurie to Dyce or Aberdeen. Surley vehicles like the new XLBs which Lothian have would be better suited to this type of work?

The XLBs have 100 seats in them which means you'd need fewer buses to operate the rail replacement service

Boarding and alighting times could be reduced by using both doors at the same time (in my experience tickets are usually not checked on boarding the rail replacement service)

The XLBs are low-floor which would make it easier for mobility-impared people, or parents with prams, to board the service

I'm not suggesting that Lothian make their XLBs availabile for hire as rail replacement buses, but more that these types of vehicles would be more suitable. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

As GusB says, the main reason is because most of the RR work is done by small firms grouping together, for example right now First have the RR contracts for the NE Scotland area, however First also have substantial school work in and around Aberdeen as such they subcontract out to local independents to cover the work for them. It wouldn't make logical sense for these firms to buy vehicles like the E400XLB's as they wouldn't be able to use them on most of the day to day work, you also have to factor in luggage and bikes.

First Aberdeen do use service buses on some of the Inverurie to Dyce to Aberdeen runs. Although this is fairly limited. First also allow firms on RR work to use the facilities at King Street Depot.

Stagecoach have been considering trying to get some RR work, however it all comes down to resources and at present Stagecoach don't have the vehicles, nor the drivers to even by looking in to it. God knows how Stagecoach will cover the 10 Kingsford Stadium and 8 TECA contracts once both those sites open, they can't properly cover the school work as it is right now! There's pretty much an unending vehicle shortage.

computerSaysNo · 13 Jul 2019

GusB said:
This is probably going to drag the thread off-topic, and there have been a few threads on Rail Replacement services, but you'd need to bear in mind that for some coach firms, RR work is only a small part of what they do, and they'd likely be unable to find a use for an XLB-type vehicle at any other time.

Jordan Adam said:
As GusB says, the main reason is because most of the RR work is done by small firms grouping together, for example right now First have the RR contracts for the NE Scotland area, however First also have substantial school work in and around Aberdeen as such they subcontract out to local independents to cover the work for them. It wouldn't make logical sense for these firms to buy vehicles like the E400XLB's as they wouldn't be able to use them on most of the day to day work, you also have to factor in luggage and bikes.

First Aberdeen do use service buses on some of the Inverurie to Dyce to Aberdeen runs. Although this is fairly limited. First also allow firms on RR work to use the facilities at King Street Depot.

Stagecoach have been considering trying to get some RR work, however it all comes down to resources and at present Stagecoach don't have the vehicles, nor the drivers to even by looking in to it. God knows how Stagecoach will cover the 10 Kingsford Stadium and 8 TECA contracts once both those sites open, they can't properly cover the school work as it is right now! There's pretty much an unending vehicle shortage.

Ah fair enough, thanks for the replies.

DMU180 · 15 Jul 2019

Jordan Adam said:
As GusB says, the main reason is because most of the RR work is done by small firms grouping together, for example right now First have the RR contracts for the NE Scotland area, however First also have substantial school work in and around Aberdeen as such they subcontract out to local independents to cover the work for them. It wouldn't make logical sense for these firms to buy vehicles like the E400XLB's as they wouldn't be able to use them on most of the day to day work, you also have to factor in luggage and bikes.

First Aberdeen do use service buses on some of the Inverurie to Dyce to Aberdeen runs. Although this is fairly limited. First also allow firms on RR work to use the facilities at King Street Depot.

Stagecoach have been considering trying to get some RR work, however it all comes down to resources and at present Stagecoach don't have the vehicles, nor the drivers to even by looking in to it. God knows how Stagecoach will cover the 10 Kingsford Stadium and 8 TECA contracts once both those sites open, they can't properly cover the school work as it is right now! There's pretty much an unending vehicle shortage.

Complete rubbish. First do not have the contract for rail replacement for the north east. In fact they actually had all of their coaches removed from the current railway work with Abellio/Scotrail due to the poor condition of their coaches compared to the local independents!

Railway companies have rail replacement providers, usually owned by their owning company, who arrange coaches for rail replacement work. For the North of Scotland it is ARR (Abellio rail replacement) for Scotrail, Arriva Road Transport for CrossCountry and Stagecoach rail replacement for LNER. They put the diagrams out for tender and the coach companies come back with prices. Usually lowest price wins!

Jordan Adam · 15 Jul 2019

DMU180 said:
Complete rubbish. First do not have the contract for rail replacement for the north east. In fact they actually had all of their coaches removed from the current railway work with Abellio/Scotrail due to the poor condition of their coaches compared to the local independents!

Railway companies have rail replacement providers, usually owned by their owning company, who arrange coaches for rail replacement work. For the North of Scotland it is ARR (Abellio rail replacement) for Scotrail, Arriva Road Transport for CrossCountry and Stagecoach rail replacement for LNER. They put the diagrams out for tender and the coach companies come back with prices. Usually lowest price wins!

Tad rude. Anyway poor wording on my part i meant "had" not "have. First Aberdeen Coach Hire had a contract to supply a set number of coaches for rail replacement, however they didn't have enough to cover both RR and their existing schools work. Hence why they sub-contract to the likes of Simpson's, Allan & Black, RS Coaches and so on, they even do this frequently on their own school work.

On another note i'm fairly sure i mentioned already First getting the contract removed a few weeks/months back. Indeed it was the condition of the coaches (particularly the Profiles) that saw them taken off Rail Replacement. First do have newer refurbished coaches (4 Levante's, 1 Sunsundegui & 3 Panther's) in much better condition to replace some of the older stock, however it was a little too late. Additionally despite the refurbs being of fairly good quality including fitting brand new seats and USB sockets you can see where they've cut corners, for example they've not replaced the dirty old carpet along the side walls of the vehicles. The two youngest Panther's as such are now being converted at Caledonia for touring work rather than RR.

DMU180 · 15 Jul 2019

Jordan Adam said:
Tad rude. Anyway poor wording on my part i meant "had" not "have. First Aberdeen Coach Hire had a contract to supply a set number of coaches for rail replacement, however they didn't have enough to cover both RR and their existing schools work. Hence why they sub-contract to the likes of Simpson's, Allan & Black, RS Coaches and so on, they even do this frequently on their own school work.

On another note i'm fairly sure i mentioned already First getting the contract removed a few weeks/months back. Indeed it was the condition of the coaches (particularly the Profiles) that saw them taken off Rail Replacement. First do have newer refurbished coaches (4 Levante's, 1 Sunsundegui & 3 Panther's) in much better condition to replace some of the older stock, however it was a little too late. Additionally despite the refurbs being of fairly good quality including fitting brand new seats and USB sockets you can see where they've cut corners, for example they've not replaced the dirty old carpet along the side walls of the vehicles. The two youngest Panther's as such are now being converted at Caledonia for touring work rather than RR.

Rail replacement companies issue diagrams which details the journeys the coach companies are required to make. First Coach Hire did have enough drivers and vehicles to cover it however when vehicles are off the road etc they use Allan and Black, Simpsons, Peace Coaches, JP coaches and MacPhails. They have never and would never use RS of Sauchen. Sometimes they take work on commercially and then contract it out for a lower price and take the cut.

They were took off the rail work about 4 weeks ago, they've not got any different coaches now to then, they had the 4 Levantes and Sunsundegui you mention when they had the contract taken off them. Also, the 4 Levante's aren't refurbished, they're disgusting. Trust me, I've driven them. They're filthy, toilets broken and stinking and have been poorly maintained in their previous lives which Aberdeen depot haven't done anything about to rectify their issues. They've got 1 panther so far which was in reasonable condition when it arrived and it's looking a lot worse now than it did when it arrived a few months ago. The other 2 panthers still haven't arrived, I'll believe it when they arrive at the depot and I drive them! They aren't being converted for tour work, that ship has long sailed, they're being converted to be able to do private hire work at weekends and schools through the week. They're still ex-service coaches, just with a toilet fitted. Nothing else is changing, they aren't getting boilers, fridges or even retrimmed or deep cleaned.

DMU180 · 15 Jul 2019

DMU180 said:
Rail replacement companies issue diagrams which details the journeys the coach companies are required to make. First Coach Hire did have enough drivers and vehicles to cover it however when vehicles are off the road etc they use Allan and Black, Simpsons, Peace Coaches, JP coaches and MacPhails. They have never and would never use RS of Sauchen. Sometimes they take work on commercially and then contract it out for a lower price and take the cut.

They were took off the rail work about 4 weeks ago, they've not got any different coaches now to then, they had the 4 Levantes and Sunsundegui you mention when they had the contract taken off them. Also, the 4 Levante's aren't refurbished, they're disgusting. Trust me, I've driven them. They're filthy, toilets broken and stinking and have been poorly maintained in their previous lives which Aberdeen depot haven't done anything about to rectify their issues. They've got 1 panther so far which was in reasonable condition when it arrived and it's looking a lot worse now than it did when it arrived a few months ago. The other 2 panthers still haven't arrived, I'll believe it when they arrive at the depot and I drive them! They aren't being converted for tour work, that ship has long sailed, they're being converted to be able to do private hire work at weekends and schools through the week. They're still ex-service coaches, just with a toilet fitted. Nothing else is changing, they aren't getting boilers, fridges or even retrimmed or deep cleaned.

I think this conversation should be continued in the First Aberdeen thread.

Jordan Adam · 29 Jul 2019

https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-updates/serviceupdatesarticle?SituationId=ID-29%2F07%2F2019-17%3A37%3A23%3A370

New timetables from 19th August 201929 Jul 2019 to 26 Aug 2019

Following our consultation held with customers across North Scotland, new timetables are planned to take effect from Monday 19th August 2019 in Aberdeenshire, Moray and the Highlands.

Aberdeenshire Council have made some changes to supported services and in line with these changes coming into effect on Monday 19th August we have reviewed our network across Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire. Also from the same date a series of revisions will take place in the Highlands.

Over 350 comments were received from customers and stakeholders during the consultation period, and we are pleased to confirm that this feedback has allowed us to further adjust our timetables to meet the needs of our customers. The adjustments from the consultation can be found below -

Aberdeenshire

Service 10 departing Aberdeen at 2145 has been moved to depart at 2215 to provide better connections for those travelling home by bus from His Majesty’s Theatre.

Service 220 will continue to operate via Great Northern Road and Berryden rather than being revised to stop at ARI.

Service 54 has been adjusted to provide quicker journeys between Bridge of Don and Aberdeen city centre.

Early morning journeys on service 60/63 have been re-timed by 5 minutes to connect with service 69.

Journey times on service 201/202/203 have been adjusted based on customer feedback.

Service 747 will operate a revised route to include Balmedie.

Highlands

Service 1B will be revised off-peak to include Milton of Leys.

New service (12) in Inverness to connect Royal Northern Infirmary and Highland Hospice.

Several journeys on service 5 will extend to Cawdor and Nairn Monday to Friday.

Service 6/7 revised to improve connections to church on Sunday mornings.

Additional Saturday journeys between Inverness and Culbokie.

Additional journeys on Saturday evenings between Inverness and Fortrose.

Service 77 revisions to the timetable and route operating directly to Gills Bay connecting with sailings to/from Orkney.

Service 78 – Mount Pleasant will be reintroduced to the route.

Final timetables are now available to download using the below links.

*Please note that we will be formatting our online timetables to A4 size this week for ease of printing from home*

Aberdeenshire

Aberdeen Airport Guide

Alford Kemnay Guide

Buchan Guide

Deeside Guide

Inverurie Guide

Stonehaven Guide

Westhill Guide

253/273/301/303/308

35

10

Moray

Elgin City Guide

35

10

Highlands

Aird and Dingwall Guide (service 25, 27, 28, 61)

Badenoch and Strathspey Guide

Black Isle (service 21,22,23,26)

Easter Ross Guide (service 24, 25, 29, 30, 62)

Caithness Guide

Inverness City Guide

Loch Ness Area (service 14-17)

Nairn Guide

10

Key notes...

Service 220 will continue to operate via Berryden meaning the frequency between ARI and Blackburn/Kintore has been slashed in half.
Changes to Service 218 axed, meaning the improved service to Alford will no longer go ahead.
Route of Service 54 changed in Aberdeen, although the service update is very vague. So i have no clue what the change is. I can only assume it'll now go direct along King Street rather than via Mounthooly.

There may be some more changes, however the update post is so basic and vague that it's impossible to know without checking every new timetable vs the consultation ones!

Volvodart · 31 Jul 2019

Jordan Adam said:
Key notes...

Route of Service 54 changed in Aberdeen, although the service update is very vague. So i have no clue what the change is. I can only assume it'll now go direct along King Street rather than via Mounthooly.

That will please the passengers. After all this time, there are still drivers using the wrong route in Aberdeen.

Jordan Adam · 3 Sep 2019

Punctuality is really taking a dip today. It's only 7:30 and already...

2 Solos (including a 7.8M example) on the 59, both running late.

4 breakdowns in the last 20 minutes.

07:03 35 Whitehills to Aberdeen
07:03 X6 Stonehaven-Aberdeen
07:19 37 Blackburn - Inverurie
07:21 201 Ballater - Aberdeen

Management want a decker on the peak 54A but as Aberdeenshire only have 27 deckers to cover a PVR of 29 (figure out how that's logical...) it's having to be duplicated using 29005 and 29007. Because of this the 7:00 67 from Aberdeen and 7:39 54 from Foveran won't operate. It perhaps doesn't help that Inverness currently have 26 deckers to cover a PVR of 12!

Update at 8:02
7:48 37 from Inverurie has failed to operate. Next bus from Inverurie Town Centre isn't until 8:55, while there is now a 75 minute gap in service from Kintore and Blackburn (provided the 220 doesn't breakdown).

29005/7 duplicating on the 54A are now 20+ late. 29007 has terminated at Ellon Academy and is now running back to Aberdeen, while duplicate vehicle 29005 will go up to the P&R and then return back.

A330Alex · 3 Sep 2019

The 201/02 is a right mess of vehicle allocations these days. Previously you'd be sure the same old coach would turn up but now it seems to be a lottery of whatever single, double or coach is available. Had one of the 35 deckers the other day! Hope no one is still trying to take their bike with them...

Volvodart · 3 Sep 2019

There are more coaches at Aberdeen now than there has been the past, with the amount of work requiring coaches now. The use of double and single deckers on coach duties has been less this year than in previous years. A lot of the duties with buses are the booked allocation. The Moray double decker is a booked working.

Red Onion · 3 Sep 2019

Jordan Adam said:
Punctuality is really taking a dip today. It's only 7:30 and already...

2 Solos (including a 7.8M example) on the 59, both running late.

4 breakdowns in the last 20 minutes.

07:03 35 Whitehills to Aberdeen

07:03 X6 Stonehaven-Aberdeen

07:19 37 Blackburn - Inverurie

07:21 201 Ballater - Aberdeen

Management want a decker on the peak 54A but as Aberdeenshire only have 27 deckers to cover a PVR of 29 (figure out how that's logical...) it's having to be duplicated using 29005 and 29007. Because of this the 7:00 67 from Aberdeen and 7:39 54 from Foveran won't operate. It perhaps doesn't help that Inverness currently have 26 deckers to cover a PVR of 12!

Update at 8:02
7:48 37 from Inverurie has failed to operate. Next bus from Inverurie Town Centre isn't until 8:55, while there is now a 75 minute gap in service from Kintore and Blackburn (provided the 220 doesn't breakdown).

29005/7 duplicating on the 54A are now 20+ late. 29007 has terminated at Ellon Academy and is now running back to Aberdeen, while duplicate vehicle 29005 will go up to the P&R and then return back.

Oh dear, what a mess. Hopefully there’s some recovery through the day and into the evening peak.

Jordan Adam · 3 Sep 2019

Volvodart said:
There are more coaches at Aberdeen now than there has been the past, with the amount of work requiring coaches now. The use of double and single deckers on coach duties has been less this year than in previous years. A lot of the duties with buses are the booked allocation. The Moray double decker is a booked working.

The issue Aberdeenshire is having (as mentioned above) is that there's only 27 deckers to cover 29 duties, at the same time there's only 42 single deckers to cover 40 duties. So the minute a single or double decker is off the road they're short on vehicles. Given the current VOR rate (7 vehicles) there's actually only 6 surplus buses in the fleet, the 4 breakdowns this morning along with the OE Shuttle means there was actually only 1 serviceable surplus bus in all of Aberdeenshire this morning and no drivers to take it out as there's also a driver shortage!

Even one more non-seatbelted decker would help as it could be used on the 54A duty meaning they don't have to duplicate it, saving a bus and a driver.

Red Onion said:
Oh dear, what a mess. Hopefully there’s some recovery through the day and into the evening peak.

It seems to have calmed for the moment, however there's still only 8 buses on the 59 including those two Solos (47485/585). Likewise there's still a pair of single deckers on the 727.

ChrisC · 16 Sep 2019

I didn’t really know where to post this but thought best to post it here rather than begin a new thread.

Last weekend whilst staying for a few days in Inverness, I decided on the Sunday that I would like to visit The Black Isle, an area that I had never visited before. I used the 26 bus which runs 2 hourly on Sundays and first visited Cromarty, then later in the day travelled back to Rosemarkie and walking around Chanary Point before getting the bus back from Fortrose to Inverness.

Lovely area and I had a great day out. No complaints about the bus service and the drivers were very friendly. My only complaint is about the high fares. It cost me £12.30 for an Inverness Zone 3 Dayrider when all I wanted to do was travel on one single route for a day with the option of getting on and off when I liked. Was there any cheaper option than this ticket that I was sold? It does not compare well with similar day tickets in other parts of the UK.

GusB · 16 Sep 2019

ChrisC said:
I didn’t really know where to post this but thought best to post it here rather than begin a new thread.

Last weekend whilst staying for a few days in Inverness, I decided on the Sunday that I would like to visit The Black Isle, an area that I had never visited before. I used the 26 bus which runs 2 hourly on Sundays and first visited Cromarty, then later in the day travelled back to Rosemarkie and walking around Chanary Point before getting the bus back from Fortrose to Inverness.

Lovely area and I had a great day out. No complaints about the bus service and the drivers were very friendly. My only complaint is about the high fares. It cost me £12.30 for an Inverness Zone 3 Dayrider when all I wanted to do was travel on one single route for a day with the option of getting on and off when I liked. Was there any cheaper option than this ticket that I was sold? It does not compare well with similar day tickets in other parts of the UK.

The zone 3 day ticket is still the cheapest option. If you'd done it with two returns, it would have cost £7.70 Inverness - Rosemarkie plus £6.30 Rosemarkie to Cromarty (£14 total). A Zone 2 dayrider is valid to Rosemarkie* at £7.00, so combined with the return to Cromarty would be a total of £13.30, which is still more than the zone 3.

It's still a fairly good value ticket when you consider the area that it covers.

* Interestingly, planning a journey from Inverness to Rosemarkie, the website/app says that a Zone 3 ticket is required, when the T&Cs explicitly state Rosemarkie as a valid destination for the Zone 2.

anti-pacer · 16 Sep 2019

Does anyone know what kind of coach operates the 0855 Inverness-Thurso (X98) service, and do they have toilets? If not, do they allow toilet breaks en-route?

alchemy · 17 Sep 2019

Ive only used it once
Its a Tain depot bus thats used and it was an 07 plate toiletless bus
SP07 HHL or something like that
Not sure of the L
Cold with Leather seats
Returns to Tain in the Evening
Asked driver about going to toilet at Brora and he was okwith that
Was only passenger for part of trip
Annoyingly there were Citylink/Megabus doing Inverness locals

Jordan Adam · 17 Sep 2019

All buses on the "longer" X98/X99 should be toilet fitted. The 8:55 from Inverness is booked to be a B12B/Panther (531xx). Whether or not the toilet will work on the vehicle is another question though... I can't recall if Tain has toilet emptying facilities.

alchemy said:
Annoyingly there were Citylink/Megabus doing Inverness locals

I assume it was probably the 2U (Peak service) or the 8 you saw them on, if so then those interwork with the 25/27/X98/X99.

Northhighland · 18 Sep 2019

anti-pacer said:
Does anyone know what kind of coach operates the 0855 Inverness-Thurso (X98) service, and do they have toilets? If not, do they allow toilet breaks en-route?

New private operator on this route. Way better bus with toilet and wheelchair access. Aaron’s bus. Timetable on google. Started this week. Decent bloke long overdue competition to stagecoach.

Volvodart · 18 Sep 2019

Stagecoach started discount fares on the route via Megabus booking before he started.

Jordan Adam · 18 Sep 2019

Northhighland said:
New private operator on this route. Way better bus with toilet and wheelchair access. Aaron’s bus. Timetable on google. Started this week. Decent bloke long overdue competition to stagecoach.

However that new service wouldn't cover someone wanting to go from Inverurie to Thurso in the morning. Will be interesting to see how it progresses though.

Jordan Adam · 18 Sep 2019

Some service registrations have went in over the past few days including changes to services in Aviemore and Elgin for the Winter timetable from next month and a random one for the 59 at the start of November.

Registration number PM0000005/4
Licence Number PM0000005
Variation number 27
Status Registered
Service number. 59
Service type Normal Stopping
Start point Northfield Terminus
Finish point Balnagask
Via
Date received 17 Sep 2019
Effective date 04 Nov 2019
End date
Supported by subsidies? No
Local authorities covered by route Aberdeen City Council
TAOs covered by route Scotland

Jordan Adam · 26 Sep 2019

From the 7th of October Stagecoach North Scotland will be getting split up and reverting back to two separate divisions as Stagecoach Bluebird and Stagecoach Highlands.

GusB · 27 Sep 2019

Jordan Adam said:
From the 7th of October Stagecoach North Scotland will be getting split up and reverting back to two separate divisions as Stagecoach Bluebird and Stagecoach Highlands.

Do you have a source for this?

I can't honestly see that this will make much difference, considering that services have been operated by separate legal entities anyway.

overthewater · 27 Sep 2019

Robert Andrews is taking over Bluebird.

Jordan Adam · 27 Sep 2019

GusB said:
Do you have a source for this?

I can't honestly see that this will make much difference, considering that services have been operated by separate legal entities anyway.

Yes, indeed i do. Both divisions will now have separate management teams.

GusB · 27 Sep 2019

Jordan Adam said:
Yes, indeed i do. Both divisions will now have separate management teams.

You've given us lovely screenshots - what is the actual source, please?

Volvodart · 27 Sep 2019

There is obviously the problem of if Highland can afford to pay for the management it needs with the results it makes, but that will be for another day I guess. Following the latest round of complaints about Highland services, Stagecoach had already said that they were getting additional management at Inverness (the new interim MD being one of the appointees).

Jordan Adam · 27 Sep 2019

GusB said:
You've given us lovely screenshots - what is the actual source, please?

It's a message sent by the regional director (Robert Andrew) to all Stagecoach employee's through the 'blink" app.

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