Excessing NSE discounted ticket to full fare

Royston Vasey · 7 Oct 2019

Hi All

There are one or two brief references in threads to doing this but quite old and not conclusive so I wanted to ask again.

I hold a Network Railcard discounted Anytime Single from Royston to London Z12, TOD bought from Thameslink online and collected already (prematurely as it happens - could have cancelled for free otherwise)

Due to a change of flight time I wish to travel before 10am on this ticket. Am I able to excess a railcard discounted Anytime Single to full fare at a ticket office? Is it possible to do this? Does it make a difference that the retailer was TL online and not in person?

RailUK Forums

bb21 · 7 Oct 2019

It is possible technically at some stations, but there is no official entitlement to it.

I am of the understanding that LNER stations are best at performing this type of excess, so your best try would be at Stevenage I think.

Royston Vasey · 7 Oct 2019

bb21 said:
It is possible technically at some stations, but there is no official entitlement to it.

I am of the understanding that LNER stations are best at performing this type of excess, so your best try would be at Stevenage I think.

Great, many thanks, I'll try. I'll also be passing through Kings Cross before the date and have had good experiences with the staff in that office in the past.

Wallsendmag · 7 Oct 2019

bb21 said:
It is possible technically at some stations, but there is no official entitlement to it.

I am of the understanding that LNER stations are best at performing this type of excess, so your best try would be at Stevenage I think.

Our days of doing any X/S may be coming to an end with our new TIS that only plays by the rules

yorkie · 7 Oct 2019

But surely this would be a case of wanting to use a time restricted ticket at an invalid time, in which case the customer should be "charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using"

If the rail industry is saying a whole new fare needs to be purchased, then this needs further investigation and is yet another example that could be a good test of the rail industry's failure to comply with consumer laws and abuse of a dominant position.

Joe Paxton · 7 Oct 2019

yorkie said:
But surely this would be a case of wanting to use a time restricted ticket at an invalid time, in which case the customer should be "charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using"

I'm not sure clause 9.5 of the NRCoT is quite as clear cut as you suggest.

9.5. Where you are using a time-restricted Ticket (such as an ‘off-peak’ or ‘super-off-peak’ Ticket) that is correctly dated but:

9.5.1. invalid for the service on which you are travelling [...] you will be charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using.

In the OP's case the underlying ticket isn't time-restricted, rather the Network Railcard discount results in the time restriction. One could argue it is effectively the same thing of course, which is what you suggest.

Looking at the Network Railcard's Terms & Conditions, there is this clause...

4.7. You will be asked to pay the difference between the price of your discounted ticket and the full price applicable fare (or the Penalty Fare if travelling in the Penalty Fares area) if you travel:
[...]
4.7.3. on a route to which a higher fare applies or at a time when reduced fares do not apply.

(My bolding.)

Unlike the NRCoT, to me the above clause suggests that a Network Railcard discounted ticket should be excessable up to a non-discounted ticket... though the "if you travel" wording and mention of Penalty Fares could also be read to suggest this is intended to apply to people who have actually commenced their journey, and are having their ticket inspected en-route...

yorkie · 7 Oct 2019

Joe Paxton said:
I'm not sure clause 9.5 of the NRCoT is quite as clear cut as you suggest.

In the OP's case the underlying ticket isn't time-restricted, rather the Network Railcard discount results in the time restriction. One could argue it is effectively the same thing of course, which is what you suggest.

It is effectively the same thing; to refuse the excess for no good reason would surely be contrary to consumer law.

Joe Paxton said:
Looking at the Network Railcard's Terms & Conditions, there is this clause...

(My bolding.)

Unlike the NRCoT, to me the above clause suggests that a Network Railcard discounted ticket should be excessable up to a non-discounted ticket...

This is the only sensible interpretation that I believe is compliant with consumer law.

Joe Paxton said:
though the "if you travel" wording and mention of Penalty Fares could also be read to suggest this is intended to apply to people who have actually commenced their journey, and are having their ticket inspected en-route...

Yes but it would be absurd for a ticket office to suggest that the ticket could only be excessed when en-route!

Royston Vasey · 23 Oct 2019

To report back, ticket successfully and quickly excessed to Anytime Single without question at a Great Northern ticket office. Thanks for your help.

Gerald Fiennes · 24 Oct 2019

Great news, I had a bit of a lecture about the new ticket system at Kings X the other day. I was offering to pay them £79 to excess a SSR to a SVR fare, but there was a stern warning that this may not be possible and the system may block it. Actually, it worked and the ticket seller was incredibly relieved when 'computer said yes'. So perhaps more training needed. Also, maybe something in the customer service side: if I'm paying what I would regard as quite a large extra sum to travel an hour earlier than planned, perhaps some degree of thanks for the extra business I am bringing to LNER might be worth considering?

Bletchleyite · 24 Oct 2019

Gerald Fiennes said:
Great news, I had a bit of a lecture about the new ticket system at Kings X the other day. I was offering to pay them £79 to excess a SSR to a SVR fare, but there was a stern warning that this may not be possible and the system may block it. Actually, it worked and the ticket seller was incredibly relieved when 'computer said yes'. So perhaps more training needed. Also, maybe something in the customer service side: if I'm paying what I would regard as quite a large extra sum to travel an hour earlier than planned, perhaps some degree of thanks for the extra business I am bringing to LNER might be worth considering?

Is staff training considered optional these days? That is an "entitled" excess, isn't it, i.e. one the TOC MUST do?

Haywain · 24 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Is staff training considered optional these days?

All the staff at Kings Cross have been trained on the new system before being let loose on it, and processing an excess is pretty easy (in most cases), but some people (staff)...

Excessing NSE discounted ticket to full fare

Royston Vasey

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bb21

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Royston Vasey

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