Walking through 1st to get to Standard

Bletchleyite · 6 Oct 2019

gaillark said:
I very frequently travel first class.
The suggestion of placing first class in the middle is not a wise one.
It will cause more disturbance with people walking through both ends as well as increased noise. Take the class 350 as an example. Plain awful

It's irrelevant where it is on a 350 or any other gangwayed MU, because they mostly don't operate as 4-car sets so anywhere is going to be in the middle. TPE do operate a lot of 4-cars, but they weren't designed for TPE, they were a stopgap.

The Class 185 is the most stupid layout I've seen.

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Tio Terry · 6 Oct 2019

Must admit that I’ve not read all the posts on this topic, but being ex BR EG grade I have First Class and by ships status so do travel by First Class unless restricted. Personally I have no problem with people walking through First Class on their way to find their seats. With 1st at the “London end” at most London Stations, when the trains leave then late borders will always need to walk through, it’s no real problem. If they take a paper or two then that’s the TOCs problem. I’m happy with the service provided.

jon0844 · 6 Oct 2019

No harm walking through when boarding IMO but when a train is leaving Stevenage or Peterborough and people begin to walk down to get off at King's Cross, hanging around (or even sitting) in first then I think it's a little cheeky.

I've been in first on Virgin Trains into Euston and the aisle is full of people willing to stand for some way to be one of the first off, and this obviously causes inconvenience to those seated who might wish to stand up and gather things and prepare to alight.

However, this problem varies based on the time of travel (and even the day of the week) in my experience.

Elecman · 6 Oct 2019

jon0844 said:
No harm walking through when boarding IMO but when a train is leaving Stevenage or Peterborough and people begin to walk down to get off at King's Cross, hanging around (or even sitting) in first then I think it's a little cheeky.

I've been in first on Virgin Trains into Euston and the aisle is full of people willing to stand for some way to be one of the first off, and this obviously causes inconvenience to those seated who might wish to stand up and gather things and prepare to alight.

However, this problem varies based on the time of travel (and even the day of the week) in my experience.

This could be avoided by one of the staff standing by the door into FC and stopping them entering once past Watford,

VT 390 · 7 Oct 2019

6Gman said:
I quite like the arrangement at Euston. Shut the gates 2 minutes before booked departure and few people need to walk through First Class.

The issue at Euston is that sometimes they have only announced the platform 2 minutes before boarding, though this could be solved.

Deepgreen said:
I do wonder if the policy on some lines of having the first class at the London end is entirely wise. Yes, it places the VIPs(!) closer to the entry/exit at the London terminus, but the converse at the country end often applies. By having first class in the centre of the train, the last-minute boarding of standard class ticket holders would not need to entail them all traipsing through first to the standard class area, which is both irritating (apparently) to first class passengers, but also awkward for the passengers struggling through with luggage, kids, etc. A central first class position also entails less disruption if a set happens to be turned for some reason.

I think it is better to have 1st class at the end of the train as if you have it in the centre you are more likely to standard passengers walking through 1st throughout the journey where as at the end it would only be at the start of the journey and not at all if they allowed more time to board at Euston as I have not noticed as much of an issue at somewhere like Paddington where they allow more time to board trains in general.

ainsworth74 · 7 Oct 2019

There was a side discussion developing around people looking down on those that pay for 1st class which is interesting but a bit off-topic for this thread so can now be found here. The thread we are now in should be used solely to discuss issues around passengers having to walk through 1st class to access standard class facilities or for whatever reason it may be required. Further posts about 1st class more generally are liable for deletion.

Meerkat · 7 Oct 2019

Tio Terry said:
Must admit that I’ve not read all the posts on this topic, but being ex BR EG grade I have First Class and by ships status so do travel by First Class unless restricted. Personally I have no problem with people walking through First Class on their way to find their seats. With 1st at the “London end” at most London Stations, when the trains leave then late borders will always need to walk through, it’s no real problem. If they take a paper or two then that’s the TOCs problem. I’m happy with the service provided.

Not surprising that you are more blasé about it if you aren’t paying!

Ianigsy · 12 Oct 2019

I'll freely admit that I generally buy First Class advances on TPE because I'm generally travelling at weekends and coming back from Liverpool on Sunday afternoon with the stag and hen parties. As has been said, you have to live with people passing to and fro because of the toilet but it's also the end where the trolley tends to embark because of the turning space.

In the past it's not been uncommon to have folk from the likes of Warrington (now Lea Green and Newton LW) chancing it in First as more often than not the guard will be more interested in the turnaround at Lime Street than checking tickets which will be collected at Liverpool anyway.

pieguyrob · 14 Oct 2019

After the whole water and newspaper theft discussion, and location of first class in any given MU or hauled stock.
I have a question.
Have any of you considered that the people doing this are haulage bashers, trying to get all the carriages for haulage?
I have certainly done this past and present!

pieguyrob · 14 Oct 2019

Oh and I walked down 2 x 8 car 450 sets recently, so the inter carriage connections are in use.

Fawkes Cat · 14 Oct 2019

pieguyrob said:
After the whole water and newspaper theft discussion, and location of first class in any given MU or hauled stock.
I have a question.
Have any of you considered that the people doing this are haulage bashers, trying to get all the carriages for haulage?
I have certainly done this past and present!

(a) Not entirely convinced that trying to get the carriages for haulage would stand up in court (whether of law or public opinion) as entitling you to newspapers or water not otherwise available for your ticket, and
(b) As certain as I can be that the overwhelming majority of those who head into first class during peak hours so that they can get off nearer the exit will be motivated by time saving rather than getting the carriage for haulage.

Bletchleyite · 14 Oct 2019

Fawkes Cat said:
(a) Not entirely convinced that trying to get the carriages for haulage would stand up in court (whether of law or public opinion) as entitling you to newspapers or water not otherwise available for your ticket, and
(b) As certain as I can be that the overwhelming majority of those who head into first class during peak hours so that they can get off nearer the exit will be motivated by time saving rather than getting the carriage for haulage.

(c) If you want a First Class carriage for haulage, you need to pay a First Class fare. It won't cost you a fortune, presumably one stop is enough for it to count.

Matt_pool · 15 Oct 2019

pieguyrob said:
After the whole water and newspaper theft discussion, and location of first class in any given MU or hauled stock.
I have a question.
Have any of you considered that the people doing this are haulage bashers, trying to get all the carriages for haulage?
I have certainly done this past and present!

How far in a carriage do you have to travel for it to count as haulage?

Not that I want to try it myself, but that has to be at the extremity of nerdism!

ainsworth74 · 15 Oct 2019

This is an area where every does it slightly differently. I'm aware that some people count every vehicle in a formation as long as it's available for passenger use whilst some people have to travel between stations. Everyone does it slightly differently and there is no definitive rule of what counts or doesn't count. However, if anyone really wants to debate the issue further might I suggest they do so on a new thread?

pieguyrob · 15 Oct 2019

All I do is walk through the carriage, I do not help myself to stuff I am not entitled to, as has been discussed up thread in great detail, that would be theft. I always make sure I have plenty of Dr. Pepper beforehand anyway.

js1000 · 20 Oct 2019

It's 2019 - not 1849 with the Viscount outraged that some peasant has dared to walk through first class! Don't even know why this thread exists - it should perhaps be renamed "common sense ain't common".

trainophile · 20 Oct 2019

It's not the walking through, it's the inconsiderate way some people do it. Swinging their backpacks into the faces of those seated, carrying on loud conversations in what should be a more peaceful area of the train. A lot of people book 1st Class so that they can get on with some work, or just have a quiet unwind on their journey. I have no objection at all to late arrivers who have to get on at the nearest door, provided they show some consideration to those they are moving past.

trainophile · 20 Oct 2019

Incidentally, the backpack thing is an issue in Standard class too - if you're wearing one please remember that it's on the same level as people's heads.

Bletchleyite · 20 Oct 2019

trainophile said:
Incidentally, the backpack thing is an issue in Standard class too - if you're wearing one please remember that it's on the same level as people's heads.

This is another thing that would be avoided, if you're talking very large ones, if there were adequate large floor-level luggage racks by the doors.

Meerkat · 20 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
This is another thing that would be avoided, if you're talking very large ones, if there were adequate large floor-level luggage racks by the doors.

Are people willing to leave their bags right by the doors? It depends how often the train stops but I would be pretty nervous about it.

sprunt · 20 Oct 2019

I don't think there's a reasonable expectation that first class will be any quieter than standard, otherwise they wouldn't have quiet carriages in first class.

Bletchleyite · 20 Oct 2019

Meerkat said:
Are people willing to leave their bags right by the doors? It depends how often the train stops but I would be pretty nervous about it.

Luggage racks by the doors on Pendolinos and Scottish 170s seem well used. They just aren't big enough.

trainophile · 20 Oct 2019

sprunt said:
I don't think there's a reasonable expectation that first class will be any quieter than standard, otherwise they wouldn't have quiet carriages in first class.

Are there any TOCs that still have a Quiet coach in 1st Class?

VT 390 · 20 Oct 2019

trainophile said:
Are there any TOCs that still have a Quiet coach in 1st Class?

I thought at one point coach H on the Virgin Pendolinos was a quiet zone but I am not sure if this is still the case.

Wychwood93 · 20 Oct 2019

H&S regs would frown very deeply on having First Class as some sort of exclusion zone - locked in and having no egress in the event of doom/disaster/fire/plague of frogs etc. - whilst the 'peasants' had plenty of doors to exit from in the event of.... (see above)

Bletchleyite · 20 Oct 2019

Wychwood93 said:
H&S regs would frown very deeply on having First Class as some sort of exclusion zone - locked in and having no egress in the event of doom/disaster/fire/plague of frogs etc.

No, they wouldn't, not any more than they already (don't) frown upon having a train formed of 3 4-car units with no connection between them, say.

Wychwood93 · 20 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
No, they wouldn't, not any more than they already (don't) frown upon having a train formed of 3 4-car units with no connection between them, say.

No prob with 3 x 4 - you have exits in each of the 4-cars

MCSHF007 · 21 Oct 2019

Do you not know that there are doors in all coaches (first and standard)? Any potential safety risks on entry to a terminal station where first class is leading are magnified when half of the passengers in standard class walk through into first blocking vestibules and aisles.

I find that when sets are in reverse formation it's very rare that people in first can be bothered traipse through standard.

Terry Tait · 21 Oct 2019

My bag stays with me, I don't trust anyone these days, too much thieving scum about.

jfollows · 21 Oct 2019

VT 390 said:
I thought at one point coach H on the Virgin Pendolinos was a quiet zone but I am not sure if this is still the case.

Your recollection is correct, and then when they reduced the number of First Class carriages on VTWC's 9-car Pendolinos they decided to remove all the "quiet zone" designations from coach H in all sets, including the 11-car sets. So there haven't been any First Class quiet zones on VTWC for a number of years now.

Walking through 1st to get to Standard

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