Interviewed under caution at London Euston

Hi guys,

A few weeks ago I was getting on my morning commute from Berkhansted to london euston. My normal routine is to buy a ticket at the machine for the whole day. I am currently trying to get a season ticket loan from work. This morning there was a hefty queue and I was running late so I hopped onto the train at the last second (there are no barriers) the train was incredibly busy as it always is. I did not buy a ticket and in the cases where this has happened before I usually head on the train line app and buy one on there but this morning I forgot.


In between watford junction and euston a ticket officer asked me for a ticket and I fessed up that I hadn't bought one and when he asked where I got on i stupidly said watford junction. I was very flustered as I usually have a ticket to show and I have no idea why I said it but I did, maybe I thought the fine would be less but who knows. He asks me how I got through I said the gates were open and i ran through. I paid the fine and thought that was that. After I get off at euston I am just about to leave the platform when he stops me and questions what j said about getting on at watford.

After a brief back and forth I admit to getting on at berkhansted and he says that in lying I have now committed fare evasion. He said that I didn't have to say anything as it may harm my defence (although he 100% did not read this out properly). He took my details and asked if I do this often. I explained what my usual routine is and he questions if, as there were no barriers at platform 14 at euston, whether I do this every day. He asked if I worked in finance and said I should warn them and started taking my details down from my driver's license.


I understand what I did was stupid and am happy to pay any fine or settlement as I know this is a lot of admin and expense for them, just so long as it doesn't go to court.

I have now received a letter asking me to confirm my details and to offer my side of the story. I plan on giving a brief outline of what happened, offering a sincere apology and ensuring this won't ever happen again (my annual season ticket has now arrived). Is there anything else you think I should do?


Thanks for your help!

Welcome to the forum

You say in your second paragraph: "I paid the fine and thought that was that". Can you clarify? Did the ticket officer ask you to pay anything whilst on the train?

Let's apply DaveNewcastle's four step test:

Test 1: Passenger normally buys a ticket, this was the one time that the passenger didn't/wasn't able to:

Beb1994 said:

My normal routine is to buy a ticket at the machine for the whole day. I am currently trying to get a season ticket loan from work. This morning there was a hefty queue and I was running late so I hopped onto the train at the last second (there are no barriers) the train was incredibly busy as it always is. I did not buy a ticket and in the cases where this has happened before I usually head on the train line app and buy one on there but this morning I forgot.

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Test 2: Coincidentally, the passenger encounters a ticket check that they didn't expect to (either an on train check, or ticket checks at a normally non-barriered platform/station):

Beb1994 said:

In between watford junction and euston a ticket officer asked me for a ticket... ...there were no barriers at platform 14 at euston...

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Test 3: Coincidentally, the passenger forgets where they boarded and names a station other than the one where they actually boarded (usually for a completely unknown reason):

Beb1994 said:

I fessed up that I hadn't bought one and when he asked where I got on i stupidly said watford junction. I was very flustered as I usually have a ticket to show and I have no idea why I said it but I did

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Test 4: The station that they name coincidentally happens to be closer (and has a lower fare) than the one they actually boarded at:
Berkhamstead - Euston SDS - £15.80 vs Watford Junction to Euston SDS - £10.50

To be clear, I'm not accusing you of deliberate fare evasion, but your story certainly raises suspicions - so you need to try your best to avoid this getting anywhere near a court.

If and when the TOC writes to get your side of the story, you'll be best placed to admit your mistake, apologise for the trouble, promise not to do it again and offer to compensate them for any costs that they've incurred.

To add to najaB's comments, which mirrored my own thoughts, it's surprising that someone looking at getting an annual ticket would buy daily tickets, rather than a weekly, given the cost saving of the later (around 20%). That immediately makes me question the story. And I'm somewhat cynical at the comment that you forgot to buy a ticket when you boarded. I expect the authorities will be too.

So, if they take this further, could you provide evidence of a sequence of fares purchased daily at Berkhamstead station, or alternatively on the app for the same journey? If you can then you may be able to persuade them that it is indeed a one-off, and it might be treated as such. However, if there are some fares from Watford purchased on the app, or maybe the timing of fares purchased suggest they have been purchased on approach of a ticket examiner, or even days when no journey has been purchased, then I suspect the authorities may take the view that there is evidence of persistent fare evasion, and would be likely to act accordingly.

By the way, as I understand it, any tickets purchased once you are on the train on an app are not valid, to avoid fare evasion.

robert7111a said:

Welcome to the forum

You say in your second paragraph: "I paid the fine and thought that was that". Can you clarify? Did the ticket officer ask you to pay anything whilst on the train?

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It appears that the OP was issued and paid a Penalty Fare in respect of the journey from Watford Junction to Euston, but having done so was found to have travelled from Berkhamsted and would therefore appear to be guilty of an offence of short-faring.

Beb1994 said:

I paid the fine and thought that was that.

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Was that a Penalty Fare? Formally that was the end of that particular matter. You now held a valid ticket between those two stations.

The company later obtained some new information that it did not have when it issued that Penalty Fare i.e. you later gave the company a different station of origin.

This gives it two options.
1) It can pursue you for still not having a ticket between your true origin and your falsely-stated origin.
or
2) It can argue that, had it known your true origin, it would not have issued you with that specific Penalty Fare and rescind it, refunding you whatever you paid for it, and then try to prosecute you on the basis of being ticketless for the entire journey.

Additionally it might try to investigate whether something similar happened on other occasions.

You can indeed try to persuade them to settle the matter out-of-court by engaging with them, acknowledging and apologising for your mistakes, promising never to do it again, and offering to pay them for the missing fare(s) and the costs of their investigations. If you read other threads on here, you'll see that other people have reached settlements so it might be possible for you too.

Given that the OP has not responded to the various questions or given any further insight, I'm not sure what more we can add.

Brissle Girl said:

I'm certainly drawing my own conclusions as to the silence.

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Like the thread was started Friday afternoon and it's the weekend?

furlong said:

Like the thread was started Friday afternoon and it's the weekend?

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I’d expect that most OPs asking for help and advice would have the courtesy to monitor on a regular basis and respond promptly to any queries for at least the first couple of days, if they really want help and value the time people take to give advice. And that’s usually the case.

Brissle Girl said:

I’d expect that most OPs asking for help and advice would have the courtesy to monitor on a regular basis and respond promptly to any queries for at least the first couple of days, if they really want help and value the time people take to give advice. And that’s usually the case.

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My experience on forums covering various topics is that a high proportion of people who post asking for "help" never actually come back. This is very obvious on IT forums where a request for basic information such as the operating system or browser is never answered.

That may be true in general but I’m looking at experience on this particular topic.

Hi Forum,

Apologies for the radio silence, I was checking the forum in the hours after I had originally posted but it looked as though the post hadn't made it past the admin check. I will have a look through and try to reply to you all individually! I have received a letter notifying me that they are still collecting evidence regarding my case, and that I confirm I am the person that was questioned on the day, and offering me a chance to tell my side of the story. I wrote on the back of the letter my account of events, and apologising profusely for my behaviour that day and stating that this represented a severe lack of judgement on my part and that it will never happen again. I wrote that I understand that the process is of great expense to the railway company, it is both expensive and time consuming, and that I would like to offer to contribute towards these costs. I wrote this in greater detail on the letter of course.

I posted this letter back to the return address on wednesday morning, and now all I can do is wait. Do we know what kind of time frame it usually takes to receive a response? I imagine from this position, the next response I receive will be either a court summons or a heavy fine, but would just like to know when I can expect a response.

Thanks again for all your help guys and apologies for not responding sooner, I just didn't realise my post had actually gone through!

robert7111a said:

Welcome to the forum

You say in your second paragraph: "I paid the fine and thought that was that". Can you clarify? Did the ticket officer ask you to pay anything whilst on the train?

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I paid a fine for travel without a ticket on the train.

Brissle Girl said:

To add to najaB's comments, which mirrored my own thoughts, it's surprising that someone looking at getting an annual ticket would buy daily tickets, rather than a weekly, given the cost saving of the later (around 20%). That immediately makes me question the story. And I'm somewhat cynical at the comment that you forgot to buy a ticket when you boarded. I expect the authorities will be too.

So, if they take this further, could you provide evidence of a sequence of fares purchased daily at Berkhamstead station, or alternatively on the app for the same journey? If you can then you may be able to persuade them that it is indeed a one-off, and it might be treated as such. However, if there are some fares from Watford purchased on the app, or maybe the timing of fares purchased suggest they have been purchased on approach of a ticket examiner, or even days when no journey has been purchased, then I suspect the authorities may take the view that there is evidence of persistent fare evasion, and would be likely to act accordingly.

By the way, as I understand it, any tickets purchased once you are on the train on an app are not valid, to avoid fare evasion.

Click to expand...

I have bought monthly season tickets in the past. However I often travel on off peak trains and also often stay in london a few nights a week so it worked out cheaper to pay daily when I was unsure of how often I would use the train. The annual season ticket I bought was through a loan from work which appealed as it was an interest free option to get the cheapest fares as it included my travel on the tube, therefore covering all bases, and it comes straight out of my monthly salary.

Beb1994 said:

I paid a fine for travel without a ticket on the train.

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There isn't a single 'fine' for this that covers all instances; I suspect that what you paid was a penalty fare for the presumed transgression of not having a ticket Watford Junction - London Euston. That would have been the end of it, but as it was later discovered that you travelled from Berkhamsted, the penalty fare effectively became invalid (in fact you may even be able to claim a refund on it if you still have the documentation...). The relevance of this point is that that payment doesn't now particularly have any effect on your case (other than as evidence of lying!).

Given that you've written back to them, there's now not much to do but wait. A lot of train companies do settle out of court, but increasingly it seems that many move to prosecute in the first instance, but may yet settle if you write again asking to do so.

Hi Cuccir,

Thank you for your response! I have the receipt but there's no way I'm going to try and claim that back! If they move to prosecute in the first instance, what is the best way to respond to try and settle out of court? Would it be just to reiterate how sorry I am for the whole situation and make sure it won't happen again, whilst offering to pay for any trouble caused? Or is there another route I should go down?

I would like to thank everyone for their replies to this by the way. My ignorance to all this is frightening and you guys taking the time to help me, as well as many others, is very kind.

cuccir said:

as it was later discovered that you travelled from Berkhamsted, the penalty fare effectively became invalid

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I don't agree with this at all; whether the Penalty Fare was correctly issued or not is moot as it only covered travel from Watford Junction in any event. It actually serves as confirmation that travel from Berkhamsted to Watford Junction was ticketless.

Beb1994 said:

Thank you for your response! I have the receipt but there's no way I'm going to try and claim that back! If they move to prosecute in the first instance, what is the best way to respond to try and settle out of court? Would it be just to reiterate how sorry I am for the whole situation and make sure it won't happen again, whilst offering to pay for any trouble caused? Or is there another route I should go down?

Click to expand...

Yes: if they start to pursue prosecution, then writing again to ask to settle out of court, or telephoning as well if letters don't work, can (but is not always!) successful.

Haywain said:

I don't agree with this at all; whether the Penalty Fare was correctly issued or not is moot as it only covered travel from Watford Junction in any event. It actually serves as confirmation that travel from Berkhamsted to Watford Junction was ticketless.

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Sorry - it may have been my clunky phrasing but I wasn't trying to suggest the penalty fare had been issued incorrectly.