Goose Hill Jct To Wath.

RichmondCommu · 3 Oct 2019

Hi everyone,

My 1979 Bakers Atlas shows this line as being open and maintained to passenger train standards. I'm aware that part of it is still open to serve a factory at Monk Bretton but I'm curious to know both when and why it closed. Oh and what services would have used it in 1979.

Thanks for reading this.

RailUK Forums

alistairlees · 3 Oct 2019

There's a thread somewhere on here that explains the changes between the various routes from South to West Yorkshire and links to a website with more detail. Can't find it now though.

edwin_m · 3 Oct 2019

It was the main route for Cross Country between Sheffield and York, but was always fairly slow due to mining subsidence. In about 1987 Intercity decided to run those trains on the present XC routes via South Kirkby if serving Leeds, otherwise via Doncaster. The Selby diversion and later the Swinton curve made the Doncaster route time-competitive, as well as providing a new service there. But I would guess the main reason would be to get rid of the maintenance costs for a long stretch of main line that nobody else really used. There was a long thread a couple of months ago about routes in this part of Yorkshire, but I can't remember enough details to search for it.

30907 · 3 Oct 2019

The Sheffield-Leeds services (no stoppers then IIRC) were diverted via Moorthorpe, giving a much quicker route to Wakefield Westgate, leaving a handful of summer Saturday trains. ISTR the closure proposal ("the five curves") was contested.

pdeaves · 3 Oct 2019

edwin_m said:
There was a long thread a couple of months ago about routes in this part of Yorkshire, but I can't remember enough details to search for it.

This one? https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...diverted-away-from-pontefract-baghill.187165/

Mark62 · 23 Oct 2019

edwin_m said:
It was the main route for Cross Country between Sheffield and York, but was always fairly slow due to mining subsidence. In about 1987 Intercity decided to run those trains on the present XC routes via South Kirkby if serving Leeds, otherwise via Doncaster. The Selby diversion and later the Swinton curve made the Doncaster route time-competitive, as well as providing a new service there. But I would guess the main reason would be to get rid of the maintenance costs for a long stretch of main line that nobody else really used. There was a long thread a couple of months ago about routes in this part of Yorkshire, but I can't remember enough details to search for it.

I remember it went through castleford. I also remember the trains absolutely hammering through Normanton. I still get a shiver at those Peaks at full speed with 12 on. Some of the cross country trains stopped at Masborough as well. Or did they? I know the xc via Pontefract stopped there. I'm not sure when they stopped stopping at Masborough

ac6000cw · 24 Oct 2019

Mark62 said:
Some of the cross country trains stopped at Masborough as well. Or did they?

Yes, some did (I used to travel on the NE-SW trains - they weren't called 'cross-country' back then - through there in the late 1970s). Masborough was the only Rotherham station back then - today's Rotherham Central didn't come into being until 1987.

The line we're talking about is actually quite historic - it was part of the 'North Midland Railway' between Derby and Leeds (opened in 1840) which became one of the main constituent parts of the Midland Railway company (formed in 1844).

Mark62 · 24 Oct 2019

I remember when the xc trains were diverted away from going via pontefract due to subsidence etc. Did the still continue to call at Masborough when the went via castleford?
Masborough was a joint station wasn't it (going way back) and Great Central used platforms one and two. There were lines everywhere then.
My dad worked on the GC in the 50s but can't remember trains stopping at Masborough.
Do you know when they stopped?

ac6000cw · 24 Oct 2019

I'm not an expert on the area, but I think the Great Central station was (the original) Rotherham Central, which closed in 1966 - the current Rotherham Central is built on the site of it.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_Masborough_railway_station and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_Central_station

Mark62 · 24 Oct 2019

It was. But Masborough was joint. As was Mexborough.
The history of the area is very convoluted but that's not surprising given the myriad of lines in the area.
Nationalisation confused things even further.
Dad used to work the line thru meadow Hall up to Chapeltown and the works in the area.
At a place called Wood bottom there were four lines almost side by side. Two were LMS two GC. I still remember trains running on the GC line well into the 80s. Just so many lines everywhere.

eastwestdivide · 24 Oct 2019

Was Rotherham Masborough a joint station? The two routes that diverge there are both Midland through and through, both dating back to 1840. I can't find any source that says it was a joint station.
And the current Rotherham Central isn't quite on the site of the one that closed in 1966, which was closer to Main St than College Road. See the old maps at https://maps.nls.uk/view/100949921 for the location.

Mark62 · 24 Oct 2019

It's a good question. Trains from the Rotherham side on platform 3/4 went to Chesterfield via the old road. The old road I'm certain was GC.
Yes I'm not certain it was joint. But given that trains went from there to Chesterfield via the old road, it raises the question.
From what I can gather platforms 3/4 closed in the late 40s
I'll have to ask dad again about this. As he was a fireman for the GC working out of Darnall sheds in the 50s

eastwestdivide · 24 Oct 2019

The Old Road as built was nothing to do with the GC - it was the original Midland Railway main line between Chesterfield (and the south) and Rotherham (and the north). When it opened, to get from Chesterfield to Sheffield by train you had to go via Rotherham, as the much steeper route via Bradway Tunnel wasn't built until later. The Old Road took the easy way, more or less following the valley of the River Rother.
By BR times, there were various lines linking the two (notably the BR-built Aldwarke Junction), but they were also linked at Beighton, where you it was possible to route trains from the GC from Sheffield Victoria (or Rotherham Central via the now-lifted third side of the triangle at Woodburn Junction), through Darnall and Woodhouse to the Midland Old Road southbound. Maybe your dad worked Rotherham Central-Darnall-Woodhouse-Chesterfield GC? Don't know if there were services that way.
Have a look at the area on http://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php to untangle the lines from different companies - the lines are shown colour-coded, yellow for Midland, blue for GC.
(I won't be back in to the forum for a while if anyone else wants to expand on the story).

Mark62 · 24 Oct 2019

Wasn't Beighton a GC station and that's on the old road between Rotherham and Chesterfield

Mark62 · 24 Oct 2019

I've double checked and Beighton was a GC station on the line between Rotherham and Chesterfield
I've looked at the route map and the lines around Beighton are so complicated. The "cut" is definitely GC. The old road seems to be MR. I can't find out what trains ran from Masborough platform 3/4 apart from long distance. However I do believe that trains could access the line to Sheffield Midland from 3/4.

ac6000cw · 24 Oct 2019

Mark62 said:
I've double checked and Beighton was a GC station on the line between Rotherham and Chesterfield

Take a look at this for the detail - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beighton_railway_station#/media/File:Shefdist.jpg (from the Wikipedia page about Beighton railway station - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beighton_railway_station )

ac6000cw · 24 Oct 2019

Mark62 said:
However I do believe that trains could access the line to Sheffield Midland from 3/4.

They probably could in the past, but by the period being discussed (late 1970s/early 80s) the layout had been simplified by BR so that was probably not the case by then.

Mark62 · 24 Oct 2019

It had all gone by then. Interesting stuff though why Masborough had two platforms that were never really used. I remember them in the 60s being out of USE. Beighton was definitely a GC station. I always thought it was on both the cut and the old road. From the Map its clearly only on the cut.
There used to be Paignton to Leeds /Hull Saturday train that split at Doncaster. It used to load 13 or 14 coaches. It went via the old road to avoid Sheffield. I remember being on it at least once. Its stopped at Chesterfield. Did it stop at Masborough? I can't remember. I'm fact I've only just remembered the train itself just now. It would have stopped at platform 3. I think it was a 47. Would have been fun up the incline with 14 full carriages. Anyone else got memories of this beauty than ran many years ago?

edwin_m · 24 Oct 2019

Mark62 said:
I've double checked and Beighton was a GC station on the line between Rotherham and Chesterfield
I've looked at the route map and the lines around Beighton are so complicated. The "cut" is definitely GC. The old road seems to be MR. I can't find out what trains ran from Masborough platform 3/4 apart from long distance. However I do believe that trains could access the line to Sheffield Midland from 3/4.

As mentioned this is a very complex area. You are correct in the line ownership but Beighton was actually on the GC route between Sheffield and eventually Marylebone. It would have been possible to access Rotherham Central via Darnall and the east side of the Don Valley (I don't know if any such passenger service ever operated), but there was no direct route to Rotherham Masborough.

lyndhurst25 · 26 Oct 2019

Rotherham Masborough in its final years had 4 platforms: platforms 4 & 3 on the Old Road to Chesterfield which never saw any any regular services, and platforms 1 & 2 on the route to Sheffield Midland. When you entered via the station buildings you did so onto the "freight only" platform 4 and had to use the footbridge (or barrow crossing) to catch your train on platforms 1 or 2. However, prior to the junction being remodelled in the 1970s it was possible for trains to/from Sheffield Midland to also access platforms 3 & 4.

See
https://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/168754229/in/photostream/
for the now removed connecting lines at Masborough South Junction.

Goose Hill Jct To Wath.

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