Legal eagles - phone bought from third-party, black listed 20 days later

Bayum · 31 Oct 2019

I bought a phone from a 3rd party on the 11th October. It worked fine, no problems until yesterday. I updated my phone to iOS 13.2 and I completely lost any mobile signal coverage. Only had access to WiFi.
Went to Apple today and they advised me the phone had been blacklisted. I spoke to Vodafone who confirmed it had been blacklisted by someone in Vodafone, but didn’t have the knowledge to tell me why. They also said they were concerned the phone had been stolen, but neither of us could understand why it had taken 20 days to be reported and for the blacklisting to be put in place.

I have original conversations and pictures of the seller, and I have their banking details from where I transferred my money to.

Ideally, I’d like the money back, but if not, something against them lying to Vodafone.

Granted, the phone itself could have been stolen and then sold on. I don’t know. But I’m not going to be happy sitting around with a phone I can’t use as a phone when someone else has benefited at my expense.

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ComUtoR · 31 Oct 2019

How did you pay ?
Was the 3rd party a legitimate retailer and what refund protection do they provide ?
Have you spoken to the seller ?
Have you reported this to the police ? They may be looking for a stolen phone. A crime number may allow you to claim on any insurance policies.

You may be able to claim the money back through your bank. If you feel like this was a scam there may be some form of fraud protection.

thejuggler · 31 Oct 2019

3rd party?

Business or 'man in a pub'?

Bayum · 31 Oct 2019

ComUtoR said:
How did you pay ?
Was the 3rd party a legitimate retailer and what refund protection do they provide ?
Have you spoken to the seller ?
Have you reported this to the police ? They may be looking for a stolen phone. A crime number may allow you to claim on any insurance policies.

You may be able to claim the money back through your bank. If you feel like this was a scam there may be some form of fraud protection.

Spoken to both West and North Yorkshire. Neither have asked for a bar to be placed on the phone.
Spoken to the seller, yes. Hoping they’re going to do their part.

Bayum · 31 Oct 2019

thejuggler said:
3rd party?

Business or 'man in a pub'?

Facebook marketplace.

As I say. I’ve got enough personal information to give to the police or to a solicitor, but my question is - am I doing to get my money out of it? Am I going to be able to find out who asked for the blacklist to be made to get them to take it off again?

AlterEgo · 31 Oct 2019

Sounds like you bought a dodgy phone. Chalk it up to experience and don’t buy off Facebook.

Bayum · 31 Oct 2019

AlterEgo said:
Sounds like you bought a dodgy phone. Chalk it up to experience and don’t buy off Facebook.

As I say, worked fine for the last three weeks! Don’t know why that changed

Bletchleyite · 31 Oct 2019

Bayum said:
As I say, worked fine for the last three weeks! Don’t know why that changed

Because it got reported stolen once it was found to be missing perhaps? Could have been robbed from a house during the time someone was on holiday and they noticed and reported it on getting home?

Bayum · 31 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Because it got reported stolen once it was found to be missing perhaps? Could have been robbed from a house during the time someone was on holiday and they noticed and reported it on getting home?

Hmm. Not quite sure I know many people that go on holiday that long. Nor do I know many con artists who’d give me their banking details!

Bletchleyite · 31 Oct 2019

Bayum said:
Hmm. Not quite sure I know many people that go on holiday that long. Nor do I know many con artists who’d give me their banking details!

It could be that it's been "laundered" somewhat and so the person who flogged it to you wasn't the thief.

It's also possible that someone reported a phone stolen and miskeyed the IMEI number by one digit, though that seems less likely.

Quite a lot of people go on holiday for three weeks.

Cowley · 31 Oct 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It could be that it's been "laundered" somewhat and so the person who flogged it to you wasn't the thief.

It's also possible that someone reported a phone stolen and miskeyed the IMEI number by one digit, though that seems less likely.

Quite a lot of people go on holiday for three weeks.

I guess it’s possible that it was nicked, and whoever sold it on thought that after three weeks it was probably safe to sell it on as they’d still been able to use it whenever they’d tried testing it.
It may not have been reported stolen for a few weeks for a number of reasons though...
Hopefully it’s all above board and you’ll get it sorted one way or another Bayum.

Bayum · 1 Nov 2019

Bletchleyite said:
It could be that it's been "laundered" somewhat and so the person who flogged it to you wasn't the thief.

It's also possible that someone reported a phone stolen and miskeyed the IMEI number by one digit, though that seems less likely.

Quite a lot of people go on holiday for three weeks.

But if it’s been miskeyed, how do I prove that? Especially with being told only the person who requested the blacklist be put on is able to take it off!

Bletchleyite · 1 Nov 2019

Bayum said:
But if it’s been miskeyed, how do I prove that? Especially with being told only the person who requested the blacklist be put on is able to take it off!

I don't think you can, sadly.

Bayum · 1 Nov 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I don't think you can, sadly.

Seems a bit drastic for a mistake!

87 027 · 1 Nov 2019

Bayum said:
Seems a bit drastic for a mistake!

Doesn’t the IMEI number include a check digit? So unlikely to be a simple miskeying

jon0844 · 1 Nov 2019

It isn't unknown for people to sell a phone, then later report it stolen to claim on insurance and get a new one. Some don't even use a fake identity and seem to believe that nothing will happen.

Sadly in many cases, the police don't take action and simply recommend the victim makes a civil claim. Scammers use eBay, Facebook marketplace and other like services all the time and really do think they can get away with it because they do.

Bletchleyite · 1 Nov 2019

87 027 said:
Doesn’t the IMEI number include a check digit? So unlikely to be a simple miskeying

It's possible even with a check digit, but I do think unlikely.

Lucan · 1 Nov 2019

Bayum said:
They also said they were concerned the phone had been stolen, but neither of us could understand why it had taken 20 days to be reported

Not everyone walks around with their phone to their ear all the time. I probably have not used my mobile for the last 20 days. For one thing I don't even get reception at home or in some of the places I regularly go to. Then there are people with two or more phones that they use for different purposes, and this might not have been their default one.

Tetchytyke · 1 Nov 2019

Bayum said:
As I say, worked fine for the last three weeks! Don’t know why that changed

Either a) the person it was stolen off belatedly realised or b) the person you bought it off reported it stolen to scam a new phone off an insurer.

Work on the assumption everything on Facebook Marketplace is fenced and you won't go far wrong!

Chances of getting your money back are nil. If you feel strongly report it to Action Fraud, otherwise chalk it to experience. I hope you've not lost too much.

jon0844 · 1 Nov 2019

It is very sad and frustrating that the authorities don't seem to care about a type of fraud that is growing thanks to social media, as well as other types of card/email scams.

All too often the police just won't get involved, even if they could easily find out who a Facebook user was that was clearly selling stolen goods. Take a look at any local group and see the people selling stolen bikes - often with the owner seeing their bike for sale and going to the police and being fobbed off.

najaB · 2 Nov 2019

Tetchytyke said:
Chances of getting your money back are nil.

I don't know if I'd say nil, but yes the odds are stacked in the favour of the seller.

gingerheid · 2 Nov 2019

As well as the other things listed above it could also be that the phone was obtained through a contract taken out as an ID fraud, and the phone company haven't worked it out until the first payment wasn't made.

I think that unfortunately you're screwed either way, as the network will only unblacklist it for the original owner

BluePenguin · 4 Nov 2019

Ask for a refund from the seller or call the police and your bank and take it from there. I had a similar problem with a phone I bought from ebay a few years ago and got it resolved this way

Legal eagles - phone bought from third-party, black listed 20 days later

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