Collision and derailment at Neville Hill Depot (13/11/2019)

ainsworth74 · 14 Nov 2019

hexagon789 said:
Damage to 800109 said to be significant on 4-cars; on the HST 43300 will likely not re-enter service, 43308 on the other end is undamaged.

Any word on the Mk3s in the rake?

Tom Maddox said:
From Facebook:

View attachment 70420

I don't want to pre-judge anything but I think that that is definitely the end of 43300. I mean I'm sure it's repairable but I'm not sure it's going to be worth doing at this stage in that power car's life...

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dk1 · 14 Nov 2019

I did wonder whether it's the use of power/brake controller that may have been a cause if a driver is unfamiliar with the new change with these units. Must've been an awful incident for them.

hexagon789 · 14 Nov 2019

ainsworth74 said:
Any word on the Mk3s in the rake?

Not that I've seen so far, if I see anything I'll post it up

gavin · 14 Nov 2019

Just received this

superkev · 14 Nov 2019

Collisions at depots particularly very old former steam sheds are quite common but dont get in the news much as I dont think there reportable to the rail safety organisation. Incidentall reported eleseware today a new 397 had an incident at Longsight.
Shared former steam Neville hill is a dump with staff climbing on off trains from the ballast and accommodating far more trains than designed so accidents probably inevitable.
A new depot like they build down south for new trains would be a valuable asset. A better lacation would be west rather than east of Leeds.
K

heedfan · 14 Nov 2019

superkev said:
Shared former steam Neville hill is a dump with staff climbing on off trains from the ballast and accommodating far more trains than designed so accidents probably inevitable.

Quite. But this incident happened outside of the Neville Hill boundary. On the arrival line to be exact.

ainsworth74 · 14 Nov 2019

superkev said:
Collisions at depots particularly very old former steam sheds are quite common but dont get in the news much as I dont think there reportable to the rail safety organisation.

I think you'll find that they are:

Types of accidents and incidents other than any occurring within the Channel Tunnel System which must be notified to the Rail Accident Investigation Branch immediately and by the quickest means available

1. An accident resulting in the death of a person or the serious injury of two or more persons.

2. An accident on a level crossing involving rolling stock, resulting in the death of a person or serious injury to a person.

3. A collision between rolling stock on a running line which causes damage or blocks a running line that was open to railway traffic at the time of the collision.

4. A derailment of rolling stock on a running line that was open to railway traffic at the time of the derailment, or which blocks a running line that was open to railway traffic at the time of the derailment.

5. A collision of rolling stock with an arrestor mechanism or buffer stop, other than in a siding, that causes damage to the rolling stock.

6. An accident involving the release or combustion of dangerous goods being carried on rolling stock that necessitates the evacuation of the area.

7. An accident or incident that is likely to result in suspension of a railway service for a period in excess of 6 hours.

8. An accident that causes extensive damage to rolling stock, the infrastructure or the environment.

9. An accident or incident which under slightly different conditions might have led to a death, serious injury or extensive damage to rolling stock, the infrastructure or the environment.

Link

I'd suggest in this case several of the above apply to this incident (most obviously condition 8) and would apply to an accident that occurred wholly within a depot.

pdeaves · 14 Nov 2019

Could it be that both HST and IET probably look worse than they really are as the visible damage is all fibreglass (or similar), i.e. it's not meant to be 'strong', the structural bits are behind? Of course, the outer casing has to get tidied up or removed to enable inspection of the structural elements.

USRailFan · 14 Nov 2019

gavin said:
Just received this

Guess that powercar will become a spares donor...
As for the Azuma I suspect, since they're still in production, I guess the easiest might be to just have a new powercar and intermediates - or a completely new set - made?

syorksdeano · 14 Nov 2019

Those are definatly in better condition than some of the Northern units at Neville Hill

43096 · 14 Nov 2019

ainsworth74 said:
Depends on if they're confident that there's no damage to the Mk3s! Personally I'd have thought that the Mk3s will need to go through a full exam before they can be put back into service to make sure there's no structural damage.

Correct. The set will need a full engineering examination. Bogie centre castings, in particular, will need examination.

LowLevel · 14 Nov 2019

pdeaves said:
Could it be that both HST and IET probably look worse than they really are as the visible damage is all fibreglass (or similar), i.e. it's not meant to be 'strong', the structural bits are behind? Of course, the outer casing has to get tidied up or removed to enable inspection of the structural elements.

The HST - probably. They're well known for having the cab moulding whipped off and replaced if needed. The Azuma having derailed at various funny angles - probably more serious damage.

43096 · 14 Nov 2019

Mitchell Hurd said:
I'm rather baffled at quite a collision here.

Hopefully HST set NL65 is spare somewhere. Or if the coaches aren't affected, then 2 power cars off NL65 will be of great use.

If it was me, I wouldn't be too bothered about fixing the HST as they're being withdrawn soon anyway. Providing LNER services can manage without an HST in this case.

That aside, thank goodness there were no injuries!

Good thing it is not up to you. The leasing company will expect it back operational - anything written off will need to be agreed with the owner and a financial settlement reached.

NL65 is not available, either.

Darandio · 14 Nov 2019

55002 said:
Slightly concerning that the newer “Azuma” has derailed in what I assume was a low speed accident.

From one of the images it looks like the derailment happened over a set of points, the angle of one of the coaches suggests they have moved as the coaches backed up because of the collision. Nothing to do with being a newer train, just a unique set of circumstances.

dk1 · 14 Nov 2019

Darandio said:
From one of the images it looks like the derailment happened over a set of points, the angle of one of the coaches suggests they have moved as the coaches backed up because of the collision. Nothing to do with being a newer train, just a unique set of circumstances.

Yes looking at it last night I did think that. Also did the HST have tail lights illuminated. So many questions.

SteveM70 · 14 Nov 2019

If nothing else it demonstrates the benefit of having the extended nose and crumple zone ahead of the driver. In most of not all DMUs and EMUs the driver is within a couple of feet of the point of impact

EE Andy b1 · 14 Nov 2019

Accidents do happen unfortunately, things can be repaired if need be, as long as nobody is hurt, we will learn from this incident.
43300 has had it now though, strip for spairs.

Derbyshire Gra · 14 Nov 2019

Thank you for your snap decision on 43300. Maybe its owner will not agree. It was due to transfer very soon to another operation and from what I had heard (although I am not the owner - so do not have all the facts!) had a long-term future.

43096 · 14 Nov 2019

EE Andy b1 said:
Accidents do happen unfortunately, things can be repaired if need be, as long as nobody is hurt, we will learn from this incident.
43300 has had it now though, strip for spairs.

Rather depends what the leasing company has planned for it. They would be within their rights to get LNER to fix it.

EE Andy b1 · 14 Nov 2019

Derbyshire Gra said:
Thank you for your snap decision on 43300. Maybe its owner will not agree. It was due to transfer very soon to another operation and from what I had heard (although I am not the owner - so do not have all the facts!) had a long-term future.

Your welcome! 8-)

Seems to me the most obvious outcome as apart from a few sets and power cars going to EMR for a short duration (supposedly) they are to be retired after 40 years of good work.
One or two will get preserved somewhere, but what about the rest, not much good to most TOCs now apart from maybe XC, Scotrail 7cities is a farce so why re-build a power car for little future use, just do up another one if need be. Only my personnel view of course.
It's time for trains to move on! Even if a backwards step.

43096 said:
Rather depends what the leasing company has planned for it. They would be within their rights to get LNER to fix it.

Yep they would by LNERs insurers! But why bother now at it's age, move on, do another power car up if need be, there will be plenty going begging.

158747 · 14 Nov 2019

43096 said:
Rather depends what the leasing company has planned for it. They would be within their rights to get LNER to fix it.

Late last year two GWR power cars, 43015 and 43195 were damaged in collisions with fallen trees. 43015 was destined for Scotrail so was repaired, 43195 had no planned future so was not repaired and was subsequently purchased by First to use for spares.

geoffk · 14 Nov 2019

superkev said:
Collisions at depots particularly very old former steam sheds are quite common but dont get in the news much as I dont think there reportable to the rail safety organisation. Incidentall reported eleseware today a new 397 had an incident at Longsight.
Shared former steam Neville hill is a dump with staff climbing on off trains from the ballast and accommodating far more trains than designed so accidents probably inevitable.
A new depot like they build down south for new trains would be a valuable asset. A better lacation would be west rather than east of Leeds.
K

Does this incident mean trains are trapped inside the depot? A reliable source at Northern told our user group that Neville Hill is used by too many trains and awkward to access, suggesting that a better location for his company's depot would be Healey Mills, where there is plenty of railway land. But is it the right place operationally? Too far from Leeds, surely.

swt_passenger · 14 Nov 2019

Darandio said:
From one of the images it looks like the derailment happened over a set of points, the angle of one of the coaches suggests they have moved as the coaches backed up because of the collision. Nothing to do with being a newer train, just a unique set of circumstances.

Looking at the Google aerial view of the location shows the track under the 800/1 is not at all straight. I think the track layout will also be a factor in why the train derailed the way it did.

heedfan · 14 Nov 2019

geoffk said:
Does this incident mean trains are trapped inside the depot? A reliable source at Northern told our user group that Neville Hill is used by too many trains and awkward to access, suggesting that a better location for his company's depot would be Healey Mills, where there is plenty of railway land. But is it the right place operationally? Too far from Leeds, surely.

Not trapped. But the shunt neck at NL is directly next to the arrival line so that will be out of action. Trains can access the depot from Leeds via another route but this gives limited access to sheds, especially for Northern. There is a ground frame at the Eastern end of NL but this hasn't worked for some time.

mikey9 · 14 Nov 2019

I note this is the "Golden Spanner" power car (is there only one) which seems to be on one end at Inverness on the chieftain whenever I pick relatives up off it. Something to do with most reliable over a period of time.....even more of a shame then...!

Dren Ahmeti · 14 Nov 2019

geoffk said:
Does this incident mean trains are trapped inside the depot? A reliable source at Northern told our user group that Neville Hill is used by too many trains and awkward to access, suggesting that a better location for his company's depot would be Healey Mills, where there is plenty of railway land. But is it the right place operationally? Too far from Leeds, surely.

Degraded Working Arrangements: No route electrically into Neville Hill Depot, diesel only.

The HST was moved back into the depot at 0415, but the IET is in the process of being rerailed by BRUFF.

Grumpy Git · 14 Nov 2019

That HST damage will probably polish out with a bit of T-Cut.

geoffk · 14 Nov 2019

Class455 said:
LNER Twitter has confirmed that as a result of this incident, the 23:33 London Kings Cross to Leeds has been cancelled (they had originally mentioned the derailment but they have since deleted the tweet in question)
https://twitter.com/LNER/status/1194751289948884993

Why would this incident in Leeds cause a train FROM Kings Cross to be cancelled? It's already there, surely.

43096 · 14 Nov 2019

mikey9 said:
I note this is the "Golden Spanner" power car (is there only one) which seems to be on one end at Inverness on the chieftain whenever I pick relatives up off it. Something to do with most reliable over a period of time.....even more of a shame then...!

No, most/all of the LNER fleet have the spanners.

heedfan · 14 Nov 2019

geoffk said:
Why would this incident in Leeds cause a train FROM Kings Cross to be cancelled? It's already there, surely.

Might not have been able to access NL once it got to Leeds.

Collision and derailment at Neville Hill Depot (13/11/2019)

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