the driving trailers of the 80x to date have the pantographs and transformers. The transformer is a reasonably heavy piece of kit, so I wonder if the plan is to relocate them to the trailer vehicle and sling engines under the driving trailers to spread the weight about? When the 804 scheme was launched great emphasis was placed on there being 4 engines to keep to 222 timings on diesel.
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Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
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WideRanger
Member
- Joined
- 15 Jun 2016
- Messages
- 325
Any suggestion for branding of these trains yet? Given the trend for names that reflect geographic areas (Meridians, Azumas) and the country of heritage (Pendelinos, Azumas again), here's my suggestion. 'Chuo' - sounds quite 'trainy', and is the Japanese word for central or middle. Even the word written in Japanese 中央 seems ripe for turning into a logo...
Raul_Duke
Member
- Joined
- 29 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 397
A meridian will keep time reasonably happily with 1/5, 1/7 or 2/10 engines out*, so it’s possibly not as much of an issue.
*In fact ECS mode knocks all the hotel electrics + AC + an engine out and will still keep to passenger timings.
irish_rail
Established Member
Please no. If only intercity express train could be used across all franchises , much like HST was. Far less tacky and gimmicky.
EMR have their 'EMR intercity' brand, alongside electrics and regional, so I'd be surprised if they adopted a name like azuma, voyager, or pendelino for the new trains. At a push they may get a name with 'intercity' in them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a specific name at all!
J-2739
Established Member
Perhaps they could name the 804s 'Chuo Chuo Trains'!
It's not the name, but how they execute it. 'Azuma' only means 'east' in Japanese, but thanks to VTEC/LNER, it is used to describe infer the supposed ultra high speed of the 800/1s in the gimmicky way you mention.
Speed43125
Member
NO. This branding is so awful, I understand most monolinguals won't understand, but when a 'foreign' language is used for branding purely because the language is seen as exotic, it's so cheesy if you understand it.
Imagine you visited australia and they'd branded XPTs as something dumb like repeating a random word twice.
Stick with EMR intercity, and perhaps IET for the individual train type.
greatvoyager
Established Member
I guess it depends on whether the facelifting that EMR 804s have is also sufficient to give them a unique name, or if EMR want to do some marketing.
The Meridians are part of the Bombardier Voyager Family, but aren't called Voyagers, partially as they are a modified and face lifted version but also because of the geographical area.
The way I see it, IET is the name given to our long distance AT300s, rather than just calling them AT300s.
greatvoyager
Established Member
Isn't EMR Intercity the name of the service, rather than the actual units themselves?
Speed43125
Member
That's correct yes. I suggest IET for the train type, or else a slight evolution on 'meridian'
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J-2739
Established Member
I was really being serious with that suggestion, although I wouldn't say that "chuo chuo train" is random, as 'chuo' is Japanese for 'middle' (EMR operate in the Midlands), and it almost sounds like 'choo choo' (actually, that does sound quite childish).
In the end though, naming the 804s probably isn't top priority.
duffield
Established Member
Does the 'composite' in 'Motor Composite' mean (as I would expect) that it's part 1st and part standard class, like some of the Meridian coaches, or does it mean something else?
hooverboy
On Moderation
- Joined
- 12 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 1,372
EMR missed a trick really.
should have gone for an all black livery.
then we could have "darth vaders" to accompany the 700's, which seem to be getting the nickname "stormtroopers"
Kneedown
Established Member
My suggestion would be "Wyvern" as a nod to the old Midland Railway emblem.
irish_rail
Established Member
Why this obsession with Japan? The train happens to he Japanese designed but we are the customer and I don't quite get this need to honour the Japanese just because they have sold us a product .
Agreed, we buy plenty of trains from Germany (Siemens), France (Alstom) and Canada (Bombardier, the factory is in the UK and so is Hitachi's (well Hitachi's assembly plant)) but these aren't advertised.
J-2739
Established Member
I've already stated that I wasn't being serious.
greatvoyager
Established Member
That's exactly what it means.
greatvoyager
Established Member
Perhaps the link between Japan and the bullet train, promoting the speed?
duffield
Established Member
Thanks. I wonder what the balance between 1st and standard will be in these composite coaches? Maybe not decided yet...
greatvoyager
Established Member
I'd imagine it will be similar ratio to other IETs, but seeing as these are ordered by the operator and not DfT, maybe they will specify differently? As you say, problably still being decided.
Possibly/Possibly not. From the other orders it looks like its a 1/3 to 2/3 ratio as Hull Trains and GWR have more standard class while LNER have more first class. It is a difficult one to call because on a peak time train to/from London you can fill the 3 coaches of First Class on a 7 car 222 while at most other times you have full and standing in standard class.
greatvoyager
Established Member
Another thing to consider would be the size of the kitchen in the DTF, as the GWR / LNER ones have 3 windows darkened for it, whereas the Hull Trains / TransPennine Express fleets have 2 windows darkened.
Then again, it will probably be something along the lines of the 5-car 222. Is the shorter length of the 804 carriages still longer than the 22x carriages?
greatvoyager
Established Member
Darth Vaders... I like that idea, but wasn't that what the class 460s were nicknamed?
Abellio don't seem to be introducing names for class types on other fleets, so probably IET will be what we get.
I look at names of trains (both the classes and individual units) and I see things that are either ridiculous (Azuma), incomprehensible (IET) or meaningless (Old Oak Common - HST Depot 1976-2018) and I think, why don't they give them sensible names or names that are easy to understand. Why don't they just call them Gary?
In seriousness, I don't see the need to name trains.
In seriousness, I don't see the need to name trains.
greatvoyager
Established Member
Will the shorter carriages and one more engine than other 5-car 80x units result in even faster acceleration?
Probably, the 800s had a software limit as well.
greatvoyager
Established Member
Oh yes, I forgot about that.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I definitely got that from somewhere, it's not just myself making an assumption.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
No idea, but it's not uncommon in Europe with quite powerful engines at that and has been done before in Britain.