• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

Status
Not open for further replies.

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,300
That isn't being grumpy that is reality - they had exactly the same issues with "Southern" on both the Brighton extended GatEx and the Littlehampton peak extras into LBG. e.g the ex-Brightons would be 5minutes late at Gatwick every morning having lost a minute per stop because of narrow door dwell time issues and poor acceleration. The 0830 ish (0850+ in reality) arrival at Victoria often managed 0%ppm over year. Replacement by 387/2 saw an instant improvement.
On a bad day the north bound am peak would see Earlfield (or worse*) type track circuit issues going past Lovers / Three Bridge Up sidings / LBG approaches leaving a trail of destruction after 442s...

*cooked impedance bonds

Deja Vue:'(

Binning them early saw GTR's ppm go up noticeably!
To be blunt, the fact that GTR continued to tolerate that is just bad management. It needed someone operational to get to grips with the performance issues and someone from fleet to get to grips with the interference issues. That nothing was done says it all. I'm no fan of First, but at least SWR have done something with the interference problems and have implemented a fix.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

pigs bay

Member
Joined
29 Sep 2018
Messages
59
At last the Wessies are settling down into service again, but when are the remaining units going back into service?
So far we have 2403/6/8/10/13/14/17/20 & 23. When are 2404/9/11/15/16/18 & 22, entering service?
I appreciate that 2402 & 2419 will need more testing as they're getting the new traction and braking package.

Does anyone know when these will enter service please.
 
Joined
5 Jul 2011
Messages
6
I commute daily from Brockenhurst to Waterloo, usually on the 06:14

Prior to the recent strike, this service was always a Class 444.

Since the strike, the service is now a refurbished 442. Much as I like these old girls (but hate the new terrible seats), we are running at 1 or 2 cancellations per week due to unspecified train faults.

On each occasion the 442 goes whizzing past empty at full speed, so clear not a motor problem!

Any ideas what is causing this? Is there no longer any maintenance/engineering in Branksome?
 

Attachments

  • times.JPG
    times.JPG
    58.3 KB · Views: 56

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
3,942
I commute daily from Brockenhurst to Waterloo, usually on the 06:14

Prior to the recent strike, this service was always a Class 444.

Since the strike, the service is now a refurbished 442. Much as I like these old girls (but hate the new terrible seats), we are running at 1 or 2 cancellations per week due to unspecified train faults.

On each occasion the 442 goes whizzing past empty at full speed, so clear not a motor problem!

Any ideas what is causing this? Is there no longer any maintenance/engineering in Branksome?

The 442 you see going past is nothing to do with the 05.45 Poole to Waterloo (06.14 from Brockenhurst), but it’s the empty stock from Bournemouth Depot to Southampton Airport Parkway for the 06.51 to Waterloo.
 

Romsey

Member
Joined
30 Nov 2019
Messages
334
Location
Near bridge 200
upload_2020-1-21_9-58-50.png

-Taken from the Delay Attribution guide.
MS ALLOC STCK Planned underpowered or shortformed service and or vehicle, incl. exam set swaps

There is still a light maintenance facility at Bournemouth, but most of the "good old boys" who looked after the Wessex Electrics have taken the money and retired.
 

HowardGWR

Established Member
Joined
30 Jan 2013
Messages
4,983
I commute daily from Brockenhurst to Waterloo, usually on the 06:14

Prior to the recent strike, this service was always a Class 444.

Since the strike, the service is now a refurbished 442. Much as I like these old girls (but hate the new terrible seats), we are running at 1 or 2 cancellations per week due to unspecified train faults.

On each occasion the 442 goes whizzing past empty at full speed, so clear not a motor problem!

Any ideas what is causing this? Is there no longer any maintenance/engineering in Branksome?
Do you mean the first class seats? The second class ones were merely to be recovered according to this linked article (link follows).
https://www.geminirailgroup.co.uk/news/class-442-modification/
"All units are being fully stripped down, with seats removed, before new carpet is laid, dado panels are refreshed and seats are returned. The Grammer seats fitted for Gatwick Express duty are retained, but with new bases from Transcal."
"Many features are common across all SWR’s refurbishments, such as the carpet from Axminster and the seats re-covered in SWR colours. All units will receive new first class seats from FISA Italy in a 2+2 layout, replacing the former 2+1 layout, with tables featuring inductive charging supplied by Baker Bellfield. "


Here's the picture of them link follows
442_interior2.jpg
. https://www.geminirailgroup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/442_interior2.jpg
 
Joined
5 Jul 2011
Messages
6
Do you mean the first class seats? The second class ones were merely to be recovered according to this linked article (link follows).
https://www.geminirailgroup.co.uk/news/class-442-modification/
"All units are being fully stripped down, with seats removed, before new carpet is laid, dado panels are refreshed and seats are returned. The Grammer seats fitted for Gatwick Express duty are retained, but with new bases from Transcal."
"Many features are common across all SWR’s refurbishments, such as the carpet from Axminster and the seats re-covered in SWR colours. All units will receive new first class seats from FISA Italy in a 2+2 layout, replacing the former 2+1 layout, with tables featuring inductive charging supplied by Baker Bellfield. "


Here's the picture of them link follows
442_interior2.jpg
. https://www.geminirailgroup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/442_interior2.jpg

Well I have not traveled on a 442 since they were replaced by the 444 in 2007 (?). At some point between 2007 and today, the original seats have been replaced. The old seats were wider and reclined more - I noticed that these comfy seats lived on in the 1st class of the 444s until fairly recently.

Either that or I have just become fatter over the last 15 years!
 

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
2,657
I've only had one 442 journey tihs year, and it was delayed due to an unspecified fault on the train at Waterloo. They told everyone to go and find another service as they didn't know how long it would be, but I decided to wait it out. About 10 minutes later it moved, with barely anybody on it, and I saw everyone squeezing onto one of the overcrowded Salisbury services instead. It was one of the most pleasant SWR journeys I've had in a long time, if about 25 minutes delayed.
 

Thumper1127

Member
Joined
19 Jan 2019
Messages
167
It looks like 9P32 (1015 Ports Hbr to Waterloo) has sat down at Petersfield. Diversions via Eastleigh now.
 

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,045
Well I have not traveled on a 442 since they were replaced by the 444 in 2007 (?). At some point between 2007 and today, the original seats have been replaced. The old seats were wider and reclined more - I noticed that these comfy seats lived on in the 1st class of the 444s until fairly recently.

Either that or I have just become fatter over the last 15 years!
The seats were fitted as part of the refurb for GatEx. They are Chapman seats, extensively used in new and refurbished rolling stock in the late 90s and well into the 2000s. Far too comfortable to be used on new stock these days!
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,851
The seats were fitted as part of the refurb for GatEx. They are Chapman seats, extensively used in new and refurbished rolling stock in the late 90s and well into the 2000s. Far too comfortable to be used on new stock these days!
Whatever SWR have done to them though, they do seem to be excessively firm now, more so than at Gatwick Express.
 

Thumper1127

Member
Joined
19 Jan 2019
Messages
167
I thought they were a bit firm at first but also found the lumbar support was very good. Only done the one trip at the moment so a bit early to make a full assessment.

Oh, BTW, 9P32 on the move form Petersfield, 123 mins late.
 

Thumper1127

Member
Joined
19 Jan 2019
Messages
167
There was one occasion recently where the 0545 Poole was cancelled and someone took the intelligent step of starting the 0651 Parkway back form Southampton Central @ 0639. It runs up from Bournemouth empty so presumably they were able to get the Guard to join @ Central. I wonder where they normally join it? No use in this instance west of Southampton but an intelligent decision in any case.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,437
There was one occasion recently where the 0545 Poole was cancelled and someone took the intelligent step of starting the 0651 Parkway back form Southampton Central @ 0639. It runs up from Bournemouth empty so presumably they were able to get the Guard to join @ Central. I wonder where they normally join it? No use in this instance west of Southampton but an intelligent decision in any case.
Opentraintimes shows the call reason at Bournemouth as “OP-C” and at Southampton it is “OP-A”. I’m not sure of the decoding of those suffixes, but I’d have thought Southampton was probably to pick up a guard? I guess someone will know for sure?
 
Last edited:

daveshah

Member
Joined
1 Sep 2018
Messages
115
Scores of people from across the Portsmouth area have been left stranded after ‘thick acrid smoke’ filled one of the carriages of the London Waterloo-bound service.

The smoke was reported shortly after the train departed Havant at 10.34am.

The Havant to Haslemere service was stopped at Petersfield while guards ordered passengers to evacuate and step away from the South Western Railway service.


Firefighters were called to Petersfield train station after passengers were told to evacuate the platform due to a fire. Picture: Tom Cotterill

More than a dozen firefighters arrived at Petersfield from stations in Horndean, Havant, Liphook and Petersfield.

Meanwhile, the train has been left stuck on the platform, causing chaos for commuters heading to London.
Paul Fouch, of Havant, was on the train and in the coach where the smoke erupted.

JPNS210120%20WEB%20FIRE%202.JPG

Firefighters were called to Petersfield train station after passengers were told to evacuate the platform due to a fire. Picture: Tom Cotterill
Speaking to The News moments after being evacuated, the 57-year-old said: ‘We could smell a real acrid smell of smoke, like plastic melting. Then a blueish haze started filling the carriage.

‘Train guards soon came along and turfed everyone out. But it was all very calm.’

Naomi Harris, 27, of Southsea was on her way to London. She added: ‘Everyone realised very quickly that we had to get out. There was a fog on the train. It smelt of burning rubber.’

Firefighters were called to Petersfield train station after passengers were told to evacuate the platform due to a fire. Picture: Tom Cotterill
The fire is reported to have started in coach five, said passengers.

The News’s defence correspondent, Tom Cotterill was among those evacuated from the train.

He said: ‘I felt odd when I got on the train - it was unusually warm, like the central heating had been turned up to the max. It was pretty uncomfortable.’

Passengers have praised the actions of the train guards, who were quick to respond to the emergency.

One woman said: ‘Thank god they were on the train. Can you imagine what it would have been like without them?’

The smoke was caused by 'an electrical issue’, according to a spokesman from South Western Railway.

He said: 'Following reports of smoke on-board a train due to an electrical issue, emergency services were called as a precautionary measure.

‘All passengers alighted safely at Petersfield station and our maintenance team will investigate the cause of the issue.’

It’s not known how long the service will be disrupted.

Taxis are being arranged to transport stranded passengers.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/t...petersfield-train-over-suspected-fire-1371230
 

daveshah

Member
Joined
1 Sep 2018
Messages
115
One might have been the second driver, and might there have been a traveling fitter too who would have helped?
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,851
There was one occasion recently where the 0545 Poole was cancelled and someone took the intelligent step of starting the 0651 Parkway back form Southampton Central @ 0639. It runs up from Bournemouth empty so presumably they were able to get the Guard to join @ Central. I wonder where they normally join it? No use in this instance west of Southampton but an intelligent decision in any case.
The guard is booked to join the train at Bournemouth.
 

Thumper1127

Member
Joined
19 Jan 2019
Messages
167
The guard is booked to join the train at Bournemouth.

If that is the case then it would make sense, if the 0545 Poole is cancelled, to put it into passenger service at Bournemouth with a stops at Brockenhurst and Southampton Central. There's plenty of time in the empties schedule to do so and should not affect the 0651 departure time from Parkway. The only downside of course is that Winchester won't like it!
 

daveshah

Member
Joined
1 Sep 2018
Messages
115
SWR Twitter (of course not always the most accurate source when it comes to detail) seem to be describing the cause of the smoke as an electrical issue, but that may well mean an electrical issue causing dragging brakes...
 

infobleep

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
12,663
Yep. I've seen several tweets recently complaining about the step up to get into them and how claustrophobic they are. No pleasing some people. Let's keep 18 of the 458s and see how they like that.
No just give them the 455s/456s, once the 701s come in.

On a serious note, there seems to mutiple things causing delays at the moment, not all infrastructure related and not all 442 related either. So NY 442 problems are just adding to the overall mix.

I saw a 442 zoom through Guildford Station non-stop on Monday night around 21:10. I immediately though somethings wrong somewhere. Maybe a train diverted via Havant rather than Basingstoke and sure enough it was just that.

It was the 18:59 Portsmouth to Waterloo which departed 44 minutes late and went via Havant instead of Basingstoke. UID W17192, identity 1T70T, SC 24631204, headcode 8470

That wasn't a delay caused by it being a 442 but if it experienced any power issues, it won't have helped.
 

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,697
Location
London
Confirmed as a dragging brake which was duly isolated and the units sent on their merry way.

Initially I understood dragging brakes were the cause but it seems that swr are claiming electrical issues .

Maybe unconnected , but some of the coaches on 442s are extremely hot inside which may suggest there is an issue with thermostat control.

Certainly teething issues can be expected with new or old and refurbished stock, but SWR really need to get a grip on the multiple 442 related issues or take a decision to can the program.

Unfortunately, the 442 smoke issue today, a broken rail around Rowlands castle and the signalling falling down again today around Hilsea has meant it's fair to say the Pompey direct hasn't had a great day today..
 

pompeyfan

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2012
Messages
4,191
According to the fire brigade it was definitely a hot brake, the HVAC didn’t help as it was pulling smoke into the coach.

No just give them the 455s/456s, once the 701s come in.

On a serious note, there seems to mutiple things causing delays at the moment, not all infrastructure related and not all 442 related either. So NY 442 problems are just adding to the overall mix.

I saw a 442 zoom through Guildford Station non-stop on Monday night around 21:10. I immediately though somethings wrong somewhere. Maybe a train diverted via Havant rather than Basingstoke and sure enough it was just that.

It was the 18:59 Portsmouth to Waterloo which departed 44 minutes late and went via Havant instead of Basingstoke. UID W17192, identity 1T70T, SC 24631204, headcode 8470

That wasn't a delay caused by it being a 442 but if it experienced any power issues, it won't have helped.

1T70 would not have been a 442, or at least I’d be very much surprised if it was. Are you sure it wasn’t this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/82165/2020-01-20/detailed
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top