47550
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Personally I prefer the silver livery - looks much smarter.
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First West Yorkshire & York discussion
- Thread starter NorthernSpirit
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Personally I prefer the silver livery - looks much smarter.
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cnjb8
Established Member
I thought the Electric MetroDeckers are on test
Whiteway215
Established Member
How many of these are staying / being repainted?
I believe that there may be 9 staying in York. I don't know which ones though, although I think you can guess that the one's already pained in blue will be staying.
Kieran1990
Member
Metro have now posted the adjustments to services serving City SQ and infirmary street once the works begin.
Nothing too drastic, the 7’s moved to a temp stop on Boar Lane and the 64 and 40 running to terminate at Eastgate
https://www.wymetro.com/plan-a-journey/travel-news/bus-travel-alerts/infirmary-street/
Nothing too drastic, the 7’s moved to a temp stop on Boar Lane and the 64 and 40 running to terminate at Eastgate
https://www.wymetro.com/plan-a-journey/travel-news/bus-travel-alerts/infirmary-street/
NorthernSpirit
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I would have thought the long shelter near Trinity Leeds (stops T1 and T2) or the top of Park Row (stops R8 or P1) would have been used for the 7Series services, instead of a new temporary stop on Boar Lane. I still can't work out how a right turn from New Station Street onto Boar Lane and New Station Street to Infirmary Street will work.
First Leeds have updated the service 40 and 74 route maps to include the changes:
Service 40: https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/40%20Leeds%20Map_0.pdf
Service 74: https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/74_Leeds_Map.pdf
I like the fact that the 74 gets a city centre map included, yet the X84 / X85 doesn't:
https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/X84%20Map.pdf
Most likely reason for the new bus stop on Boar Lane is space and volume of existing services. Outside Tapped pub only has traffic accessing Bassinghall Street using it in the opposite direction.
Further follow up.
I don’t think that buses will turn right from New Station Street into Boar Lane. What they will do is widen the connecting road between Park Row and the end of Wellington Street opposite New Station Street junction. This will enable buses to potentially go forward from New Station Street and turn right off the end of Bishopgate Street.
My understanding is that the Council and Network Rail have a desire to close New Station Street and close the city loop past the station to general traffic. The Bishopgate Street to Boar Lane link if built will enable buses to turn right and travel towards the bus station without a loop around the centre
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NorthernSpirit
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Meanwhile in Huddersfield, First were running some services with deckers however the 503 was single decked.
I hope they make their minds up. They are playing with a lot peoples daily commutes with alterations like this. The Eastgate one has been a nightmare.
NorthernSpirit
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Doesn't help when the Headrow works changes were first announced, Metro didn't supply a city centre map and expected everyone to know where the streets are, they had to be pressured by transport users to supply a city centre map detailing the changes. No wonder their timetables are a mess with useless route descriptions that provides zero useful information to the travelling public, then they wonder why passenger numbers are shrinking - its because the information suppiled isn't good enough, let alone accessible. If route maps were included in every timetable it would provide profoundly useful information, which is what people want. I'm also suprised that the flimsy looking temporary shelters that are stuck in the centre of the Headrow were permitted, instead of having one side completed first before work commenced on the other. Stops H7 and H8 have recently been merged into a single bus stop.
At least with the Infirmary Street / Park Row and City Square works, a city centre map has been included. Once the Corn Exchange works are annouced then hell will break loose as going by the plans Call Lane is getting closed meaning that the Leeds City Bus service 5 will have to be rerouted to run along Vicar Lane right on to Eastgate then left up New York Street, I'm sure the 19 and 19A will be diverted to run either via The Calls when heading towards Tinshill and Ireland Wood or via Eastgate when heading towards Garforth.
Whisky Papa
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I got an email from First West Yorkshire on Wednesday advising of service changes from 23rd February, including the following additional journeys on the 592:
0527 Todmorden to Burnley, 1445 Todmorden – Burnley, 1540 Todmorden – Burnley.
0605 Burnley to Todmorden, 0720 Burnley to Todmorden, 1530 Burnley – Todmorden, 1630 Burnley to Todmorden.
The first jouneys to and from Burnley are slightly earlier than the previous 589 services, incidentally. These are in addition to the additional journeys added at high peak hours when the 589 from Rochdale was first truncated at Todmorden.
Why not just admit they screwed up and restore the 589 through to Burnley every hour?
0527 Todmorden to Burnley, 1445 Todmorden – Burnley, 1540 Todmorden – Burnley.
0605 Burnley to Todmorden, 0720 Burnley to Todmorden, 1530 Burnley – Todmorden, 1630 Burnley to Todmorden.
The first jouneys to and from Burnley are slightly earlier than the previous 589 services, incidentally. These are in addition to the additional journeys added at high peak hours when the 589 from Rochdale was first truncated at Todmorden.
Why not just admit they screwed up and restore the 589 through to Burnley every hour?
Whisky Papa
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Incidentally, I've just had a look at the forthcoming timetables on First's website. Yet again, they are strewn with errors - the Saturday one heading towards Halifax shows a frequency block from mid-morning but nothing after that! Sundays has completely duplicated journeys in the frequency block, but as the timetable drops back ten minutes every few hours, you can't even use sensibly use a frequency block presentation on this day.
I was writing bus timetables (by hand) from the age of 18, and yes, a mistake is always possible, but these are far beyond a mere slip of the metaphorical pencil. Absolutely hopeless - no other (polite) word for it. If Metro really want to push publicity onto the operators, they are going to have to tell First to get their finger out, pronto.
I was writing bus timetables (by hand) from the age of 18, and yes, a mistake is always possible, but these are far beyond a mere slip of the metaphorical pencil. Absolutely hopeless - no other (polite) word for it. If Metro really want to push publicity onto the operators, they are going to have to tell First to get their finger out, pronto.
NorthernSpirit
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The problem is that FWY won’t print their own timetables, yet until recently First York had high quality timetables and maps as far back as 2014/2015. Its not as if they haven’t got the templates, they could always reuse the First York templates and change the First York logo with the First Leeds or First West Yorkshire logo and do an entire print run for Leeds initially before rolling it out across the rest of West Yorkshire.
When the X26/X27 was introduced last year, for the first three timetable changes First West Yorkshire did at least produce a PDF of the timetable (that had the times going 18 across) complete with detailed route map - this is what Metro should have printed off instead, rather than doing their own version that only had a route description, a poor timetable layout that was a mess and had zero map - not good or an attractive way to entice passengers to use the service.
To get First West Yorkshire to print their own timetable publications, they need to have the same pressure applied on them by the travelling public as Metro have recently when they thought that they could get away with supplying no city centre map for the Headrow works information.
I think that if you’re an operator, it should be made as a condition of the O Licence that the operator must provide their own printed timetable publicity (that is three fold A4 in size) without help from the local authority which includes Combined Authorities / Passenger Transport Executives. I've contacted FWY various times to try and get them to put both high quality timetables and route maps together in both printed and in PDF format, as First West of England already supply high quality publications, this is what we want in West Yorkshire - detailed information. Got told that Metro does it for them, well the Metro versions are crap.
Sadly in York, First no longer supply printed information, the city council have had to step in and print streams off the First York or in some cases Get Down website. What I’ve worked out is that for First York you’d only need three timetable guides - One for the York City Network, one for the Park & Ride and one for the University services. No idea on how tourists can cope if you can’t pick up the relevant timetable at the site office. I am surprised that Metro didn’t jump in and started printing them instead.
I’ve also asked First West Yorkshire if they could introduce the Discover brand on the X84 and X85 as those routes look a good enough candidate. Especially with it serving and passing Headingley, Golden Acre Park, Bramhope Puritan Chapel and the towns of Otley, Ilkley and Skipton enroute - if its good enough for the 265 and 267 in Wiltshire and Avon, then it’ll be good enough for the X84 / X85 in West and North Yorkshire. It’s a start.
cnjb8
Established Member
I think that Discover was designed specifically for West of England and isn't a national scheme.
Those services will eventually turn right down Kirkgate where the New Market Street/Vicar Lane/Kirkgate Junction is.
I don’t know if there are temporary plans to divert them whilst the works occur
Kieran1990
Member
The merging of H6 & H7 is absolutely shambolic on the Headrow. Long line snaking out of the barriers at rush hour as we now how have 5 very busy peak time routes being served from a wooden lean too. I’ve stopped using it and walk down to John Lewis to pick up a 49/50/50A
Also the 49 is to be reduced in frequency from 22nd Feb- not impressed
Also the 49 is to be reduced in frequency from 22nd Feb- not impressed
Whisky Papa
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Thanks for the input. I agree the Metro timetables lack visual appeal (and in many cases a map) but they are at least accurate and generally freely available in print in the relevant area and can be found online fairly easily. Why First is incapable of getting the timetables correct on its own website is absolutely beyond me. I can only imagine the fuss if they sent something so inaccurate off to the printers!
A slight deviation from topic, but when Metro withdrew their train timetable booklets, I was still working in the ticket office at Bradford Interchange. This decision caused uproar with the public, despite Northern always having had their own timetables on offer alongside the Metro ones. What caused further problems was that some bright spark in the Publicity section at Northern refused to send a station any timetables for services that didn't call there, thus we had no timetables for Leeds-Harrogate or Leeds-Wakefield. The people involved at Northern simply did not understand how vauable the publicity provided by Metro was for the network as a whole, and certainly did not want to increase their own budget accordingly to replace it.
Leeds - route group 7 could not use the top of park row as Yorkshire water are going to dig in that area.
Headrow works- there was no pressure from user groups - guides were placed in the majority of stops in the city centre prior to any work taking place hand outs including a city centre map and FULL bus stop guide was also available in the bus station well in advance of the work and the guides are still available
Time tables are a mess and useless ?? compared to ?? Metro being taxpayer funded has to be financially accountable and receives very little money from operators for the cost of printing time tables they also rely on the operators suppling the correct information so if the time tables are incorrect vent off at the operators not Metro.
falling passenger numbers -- this is nationwide so I don't know how Metro can be blamed for that.. due to higher fares coupled with more home working and internet shopping passenger numbers will naturally fall.
Corn x - call lane will close from reds bbq down to the railway overbridge services 2/3/3a/12/13/13a/47/48 will turn left onto lower brigate and onward to meadow lane so 5/19/19a etc not affected.
RAIL STA - services coming out of new station street will not turn left as per current layout but will go straight ahead over to infirmary street then left to king street the road across the front of the queens will close and be incorporated into city square.
all works can be viewed on connecting leeds on the councils web site
Headrow works- there was no pressure from user groups - guides were placed in the majority of stops in the city centre prior to any work taking place hand outs including a city centre map and FULL bus stop guide was also available in the bus station well in advance of the work and the guides are still available
Time tables are a mess and useless ?? compared to ?? Metro being taxpayer funded has to be financially accountable and receives very little money from operators for the cost of printing time tables they also rely on the operators suppling the correct information so if the time tables are incorrect vent off at the operators not Metro.
falling passenger numbers -- this is nationwide so I don't know how Metro can be blamed for that.. due to higher fares coupled with more home working and internet shopping passenger numbers will naturally fall.
Corn x - call lane will close from reds bbq down to the railway overbridge services 2/3/3a/12/13/13a/47/48 will turn left onto lower brigate and onward to meadow lane so 5/19/19a etc not affected.
RAIL STA - services coming out of new station street will not turn left as per current layout but will go straight ahead over to infirmary street then left to king street the road across the front of the queens will close and be incorporated into city square.
all works can be viewed on connecting leeds on the councils web site
Agree with most of the above.
There are three sections of Call Lane and two will close to general traffic as a a result of the Corn Exchange works.
It starts at the northern end at the junction with Kirkgate and New York Street (section 1), run across front of Corn Exchange to the junction with Duncan Street and Market Street. Section 2 runs down towards The Calls and then section 3 is the Inner Loop to the junction with Bridge End and Swinegate.
Technically the closure of section 1 affects the 5 and 19 (as well as many other bus services)
There are three sections of Call Lane and two will close to general traffic as a a result of the Corn Exchange works.
It starts at the northern end at the junction with Kirkgate and New York Street (section 1), run across front of Corn Exchange to the junction with Duncan Street and Market Street. Section 2 runs down towards The Calls and then section 3 is the Inner Loop to the junction with Bridge End and Swinegate.
Technically the closure of section 1 affects the 5 and 19 (as well as many other bus services)
NorthernSpirit
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There's two Excels brands, both are unrelated - one in Norfolk and the other in North Somerset, this is where I got the idea from as Yorkshire could have its own version of Discover.
cnjb8
Established Member
Ah, got you now!
NorthernSpirit
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You won't be impressed by the timetable that Metro have supplied for the 49, the pages are not in order so you are having to flick back and forth through the timetable to find the times.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
First one of the York Metrodeckers I've seen vinyled up
https://www.flickr.com/photos/abbiesbuspics/49552229672/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/abbiesbuspics/49552229672/in/photostream/
NorthernSpirit
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Looks good, once the park and ride livery is complete I wonder if we'll see the start of a proper York City Network livery instead of the current all over white with stripe & skylines?
Once more of these Metrodeckers are pressed into service we'll find out on what's happening with the Citario's, I know that Whiteway215 is interested if they're still moving to Bath.
KendalKing
Established Member
nine of Citario's are due to move to Aberdeen.
Whiteway215
Established Member
Well as there are 15 of them in York 11101-15 and 9 are going to Aberdeen none are likely to end up in Bath. Not sure how many are being refurbished/repainted to stay in York.