Paul Kelly
Verified Rep - BR Fares
Isn't this part of the problem though? It doesn't happen to anywhere near the same extent in other countries. It's all a matter of prioritising the passenger experience above operational convenience.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Can big stations put up notices showing which platform for which destinations, like small stations?
- Thread starter miklcct
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Generally other countries have less frequent services and more platforms. Euston for instance is surprisingly consistent, though slightly less so since it lost 17 and 18.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I used to find it really annoying, as the time it took me to locate my station in the densely-packed list was slightly longer than the time those stations were displayed before it flipped over to the next set (if I was at school today I think I might have been diagnosed as slightly dyslexic). I seem to remember it improving after a few months.
This also seems to be an issue with the automated announcements. The “staff information” screens often show routes set into a different platform several minutes before the change of platform announcement is to be heard!
richieb1971
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 1,981
At Bedford this idea only works for 1 platform as the other 3 are bi directional.
It would help at Tamworth though, the amount of people that ask me which way to London increases on each visit, and those are not bi-directional platforms.
It would help at Tamworth though, the amount of people that ask me which way to London increases on each visit, and those are not bi-directional platforms.
Though it may well be that the platform change is of long term benefit to passengers ( by avoiding delays). Or do you leave a train scheduled to call at platform 7 outside the station while it waits for the medical emergency on platform 7 to be dealt with while platform 3 is unoccupied?
Even Clarbeston Road is there!
miklcct
On Moderation
There were displays showing the next few departures to London Waterloo and London Victoria, but they have been removed.
While fine in theory, the problem is perhaps that - at 10:11:33 - there are two trains at 10:14 (from platforms 2 & 9), hence two groups of stations - for these, and not knowing the station, are those indicated the platforms I should be working out how to get to and heading for?
If I want Manchester Airport, should I aim for platform 9 (and the 10:14 Northern train - do I have time to catch it?) or platform 3 (and the 10:24 TPE)?
Does the screen allow for the time taken to reach the platform from where you are standing. There’s no point at 10.11 being told that the next train is from platform 13 at 10.13 (assuming it’s on time!)
Either it was previously possible and a crossover/LOS has since been removed (possibly in connection with 2A) or the timetable was well and truly out of the window on that particular day!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The timetable was well out of the window that day. In fact it had got the bus into town and had had a 3 course lunch and was on to the cognac by the time i got there!
Annetts key
Established Member
Although to be fair, odd numbered platforms (apart from platform 15) are normally north, east or Wales bound services. Even numbered platforms are normally west bound services. An most BTM to London Paddington services (that start here) use platforms 13 and 15.
Avonmouth and Severn Beach services (unless a through service) normally use platform 1.
However, as others have said, some services do not always stick to the normal routine. Either due to limitations with parallel moves, due to engineering work, or due to other problems such as infrastructure or train failures, or other good reasons.
At most large stations, it’s the senior station staff that decide which platform to use if the normal scheduled platform cannot be used. Web sites like Real Time Trains and National Rail Enquiries (plus various others) can tell you in advance which platform a service is scheduled to use.
One thing that I would like introduced is train codes (numbers) being made available to the public. I would like the existing train describer (TD) (‘head codes’) expanded to six characters, with the first two characters being an operator code (so say GW for GWR as an example) followed by the existing TD code. Hence one of the trains I used today would have the code GW1A06 and would be displayed on information screens (customer information systems, CIS) as well as being used in timetables and on seat reservations and other train information…
This should make it easier for passengers and reduce the confusion that can currently occur when they try to find their train on the various CIS. Because some get confused as the destination shown is not ‘their’ destination, and/or there is more than one train departing at the exact same time, but to different destinations.
As most TD systems are now computer based, it should not be too difficult for the TD systems to handle descriptions internally as six characters even if they are not capable of displaying all six characters on the existing displays on signallers displays.
Dai Corner
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 6,351
Cardiff Central has signs in the subway showing the principal destinations from each platform.
Unfortunately, they're not always accurate since the latest resignalling which, for example, means not all Up main line services have to use platforms 1 and 2.
Unfortunately, they're not always accurate since the latest resignalling which, for example, means not all Up main line services have to use platforms 1 and 2.
Attachments
I like it, it's not perfect but much better than a traditional departures board that only shows the final destination of the services.
It is *big* though, fine for Manchester Piccadilly but i'm not sure how many stations could fit a display like that in a place where it didn't cause crowd control problems.
In Manchester, the operator name serves reasonably effectively to distinguish fast trains from stoppers (and only a relatively small number of stations are served by both from Manchester anyway), I suspect if you wanted to deploy a similar sign at somewhere like kings cross you would want to distinguish fast trains from stoppers somehow and/or suppress services that are scheduled to be overtaken.
Some of the operator names have already been shortened to fit them on the screen. I don't think using the 2 letter abbreviations as used in timetables would be a great idea, especially as many of them don't have anything to do with the current name of the operator.
Station names have also been shortened, some seem to have simply been truncated at arbitary locations ("church stretto" "Clarbeston Roa" , "Deansgate G Me" etc), some are clearly deliberately chosen shorternings ("Birmingham N S" , "Blackpool Nrth", "Buckshaw Pkwy", "Horwich Pkwy", "Manchester O R" etc)
and some you can't really tell whether they were simply truncated automatically or whether someone through about it and decided the simple truncation was in fact the best abbrevation ("Adlington Ches", "Birmingham Int", "Burscough Brid", "Chapel En Le F" etc)
Depends how fit you are
Personally I'd probably head for the northern train knowing that with a 10 minuite gap, if I missed it I'd still have time to get the TPE.Yeah it's not perfect and in corner cases like this you do need some local knowledge to do the best thing. Local knowledge in this case would say there isn't much opportunity for overtaking on the airport line, so the first departure to the airport is probably the first arrival, OTOH for sheffield you are likely to be better off waiting for a TPE or EMR service.
Last edited:
Theoretically, but then you'd have to deal with the backlash when there's platform alterations in disruption, or engineering works or early morning / late at night when things can be radically different.
I have seen Waterloo have done this with a range of platforms. I don't use the station that much (a few times each month) and already I've been on the "wrong" platforms a couple of times. At Victoria they've got signs directing you by operator which is fairly sensible. I think similar signs are in place at Liverpool St.
There are lots of little caveats which means that there can be changes on a fairly regular basis, especially at London terminals. If signs of this sort were to be erected, I certainly believe they should have "normally" or "usually" on them.
As for line diagrams they get increasingly complicated in some places - there's some still some older style (mid 2000s?) ones at Southern platforms across S. London and given the number of junctions and routes they look very cluttered. TfL services generally have very standard calling patterns too, which makes a line diagram easier compared to the more varied calling patterns on most National Rail services.
Passenger experience would be improved by not sticking to the booked platform and causing unnecessary delay when there is another available platform - given fair warning.
I have seen Waterloo have done this with a range of platforms. I don't use the station that much (a few times each month) and already I've been on the "wrong" platforms a couple of times. At Victoria they've got signs directing you by operator which is fairly sensible. I think similar signs are in place at Liverpool St.
There are lots of little caveats which means that there can be changes on a fairly regular basis, especially at London terminals. If signs of this sort were to be erected, I certainly believe they should have "normally" or "usually" on them.
As for line diagrams they get increasingly complicated in some places - there's some still some older style (mid 2000s?) ones at Southern platforms across S. London and given the number of junctions and routes they look very cluttered. TfL services generally have very standard calling patterns too, which makes a line diagram easier compared to the more varied calling patterns on most National Rail services.
Passenger experience would be improved by not sticking to the booked platform and causing unnecessary delay when there is another available platform - given fair warning.
Last edited:
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Doesn't it already indicate the train that would give the earliest arrival at each station shown, therefore suppresseses trains that are overtaken? The more limited "Next fastest train to" ones you see at some stations south of London certainly do that.
In my experience it happens a lot in Italy.
I don't think anything is suppressed but I could be wrong.
The think is though, there just aren't that many options for overtaking, It's possible for overtaking to happen between Manchester and Stockport or when trains take totally different routes, but otherwise mostly it's two track railways where trains to a given destination normally arrive in the order they departed.
That is interesting. Thank you.
“Next fastest train to x” signs are a lifesaver when rushing through an interchange station like London Victoria or just to quickly grok what platform to head for when 3 different arriving trains are all going to the same place and you don’t have the time to check the arrival times at the destination. They avoid the mess that is Piccadilly’s omniscreen by not needing to show stoppers and semi-fasts that also go to the same destination but may be overtaken by a later departure.
As for generic boards, I quite like the Euston layout. Detailed information on the next couple of services to depart, with a list of upcoming departures in a more condensed format.
As for generic boards, I quite like the Euston layout. Detailed information on the next couple of services to depart, with a list of upcoming departures in a more condensed format.
Not the best image but...
markymark2000
On Moderation
This would only work where it is impossible for trains to use another platform. One such one being Chester could post signs for Merseyrail on 7B because it is impossible for them to use another platform (well... not impossible but it would be a great hassle for them to serve another platform).
Even Crewe for example though where trains have a very regular platform, for example, Platform 1 for Northern, platform 3 for LNWR via Stoke, P4 for EMR, these aren't set in stone and so signs such as this could prove to make life more difficult for passengers when they end up following the signs and there is a one off platform alteration. Also, if you posted platform 1 for the Northern services to Manchester, Unaware travellers for Manchester would go to platform 1 which is useless when TFW and Avanti trains also go to Manchester but can do so off platform 5 and 6 as well.
Even Crewe for example though where trains have a very regular platform, for example, Platform 1 for Northern, platform 3 for LNWR via Stoke, P4 for EMR, these aren't set in stone and so signs such as this could prove to make life more difficult for passengers when they end up following the signs and there is a one off platform alteration. Also, if you posted platform 1 for the Northern services to Manchester, Unaware travellers for Manchester would go to platform 1 which is useless when TFW and Avanti trains also go to Manchester but can do so off platform 5 and 6 as well.
I've seen smaller stations where the signage can be misleading in edge cases.
One case i've seen in at least two places (Oxenholme and Par) is stations with a platform for a branch, where the mainline platforms are signed for the mainline destinations and the branch platform is signed for the branch but there is no indication that some trains for mainline destinations will use the branch platform because they are coming off the branch.
chris_in_salop
Member
- Joined
- 29 Sep 2010
- Messages
- 175
Also Church Stretton, Ludlow and Hereford, but oddly Shrewsbury isn't there.
Oxenholme has indicators and (fairly sure) platform staff. Par is two sides of an island platform.
Fiyero
Member
At Eastleigh a train to London that has come from Southampton will almost certainly be platform 1. A train to London from Portsmouth cannot go to platform 1.
I am sure lots of stations will have similar irregularities. It gets to the point where the exceptions are more common than the rules!
I am sure lots of stations will have similar irregularities. It gets to the point where the exceptions are more common than the rules!
Using Edinburgh today as an example:
Which doesn't really help as the access for some of those platforms is in a completely different place to the access for the rest.
- Status