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no 444s on saturdays
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MCR247
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They do.
MCR247
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The direct route being Haslemere? Maybe SWT have enough 450s so they don't need 444s to operate them?
MCR247
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The 460s are going into storage ATM
Is the seating on the 460s going to be changed to 458 standard?
Having said that I am quite aware the porterbrook plan has not been confirmed nor has the 456 transfer.
I am right in thinking were it to go ahead it will have no impact on the 444 diagrams but will only affect inner suburban services and the reading line?
I was just wondering if these hypothetical 5-car units could (even if not initially) extend to other areas of the SWT network?
Having said that I am quite aware the porterbrook plan has not been confirmed nor has the 456 transfer.
I am right in thinking were it to go ahead it will have no impact on the 444 diagrams but will only affect inner suburban services and the reading line?
I was just wondering if these hypothetical 5-car units could (even if not initially) extend to other areas of the SWT network?
MCR247
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Nothing is confirmed, and 460s going to SWT would not affect 444s, or any other 450/0s really
Possibly due to the fact that a lot of the platforms along the 'Pompey Direct' can only hold a 5car 444 or an 8car 450, but on a Saturday you need more capacity than a single unit can offer. Therefore running an 8car 450 is simpler for the passengers as they only have to worry about short platforms at a few locations (for example Rowlands Castle) whereas if you ran a 10car 444 they would need to be in the front 5 coaches to alight at the majority of stations, causing confusion and unnecessary hassle for those who don't use the train often or otherwise unfamiliar with the route.
thefab444
Established Member
Worth pointing out that the Saturday diagrams are much simpler; all Poole and Portsmouth via Eastleigh services are booked 5 444, so there aren't enough 444s to run the Portsmouth via Guildford express services as well.
One thing that gets me is the Waterloo - Portsmouth & Southsea (stopping) / Haslemere services are booked 8 450 on Saturdays, but the Waterloo - Basingstoke / Alton services are only 4 450. The latter services are usually pretty full, whereas the former are often near empty!
One thing that gets me is the Waterloo - Portsmouth & Southsea (stopping) / Haslemere services are booked 8 450 on Saturdays, but the Waterloo - Basingstoke / Alton services are only 4 450. The latter services are usually pretty full, whereas the former are often near empty!
Matt Taylor
Established Member
This has been going on for years, ten years ago they were running 8 car slammers on the Pompey direct on saturdays whereas it was mostly 442s in the week.
Southern
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On the Portsmouth Direct, all services on a Saturday are either 8 450. Exceptions are:
0520/0645/2145 Waterloo - Portsmouth H & 2218 return - 4 450
1924 Portsmouth & SS - Waterloo - 4 450
0515 Guildford - Portsmouth H/2315 Waterloo - Portsmouth H - 5 444
2319 Portsmouth H - Guildford - 12 450
On a Sunday, though, a few early morning/late evening services are booked 10 444/12 450!
0520/0645/2145 Waterloo - Portsmouth H & 2218 return - 4 450
1924 Portsmouth & SS - Waterloo - 4 450
0515 Guildford - Portsmouth H/2315 Waterloo - Portsmouth H - 5 444
2319 Portsmouth H - Guildford - 12 450
On a Sunday, though, a few early morning/late evening services are booked 10 444/12 450!
Interesting thanks for that. Any idea why this could be or has it always been the better stock has been needed for the weymouth routes on a Saturday? Apparently stopping services to Portsmouth via Eastleigh are 444s on Saturday which seems strange so in effect they could use 444s.
devon_metro
Established Member
Poole - Waterloo stoppers are diagrammed to interwork with the Waterloo - Pompey via Eastleigh. Hence why they are 444s.
Similarly most Waterloo to Weymouth tend to be single 444s in the day, obviously strengthened in peaks. Very rarely do I see 450s down towards Southampton, I believe the 1000 Southampton - Waterloo might be 8 450.
Hydro
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I've definitely seen the odd Poole stopper as a 450, in fact had to give up a T2 in the sidings down there for one before. I can't ever recall seeing a 450 past Poole.
Portsmouth to Soton tend to be 450's, they call at St Denys and branch off to Fareham via Swanwick et al.
Portsmouth to Soton tend to be 450's, they call at St Denys and branch off to Fareham via Swanwick et al.
Southern
Member
As has been said, shortage of stock. Portsmouth/Poole/Weymouth services are mainly single 5-car units, with select Weymouth services running in pairs. These divide/attach at Bournemouth. One answer could be send 450's to the Portsmouth via Eastleigh service in exchange for the 444's. Problem is timetabling, which sees an inbound service from Portsmouth go back out of Waterloo on a service to Poole. I can't image customers West of Southampton being too pleased at having a service with no tables at the weekend.
thefab444
Established Member
There are a few 450 services to Weymouth on weekdays:
06:11 Bournemouth - Weymouth
07:25 Weymouth - Brockenhurst
05:40 Basingstoke - Weymouth
08:20 Weymouth - London Waterloo (a further 450 is attached at Southampton Central)
The Poole stopping services are generally only used for short journeys as they are looped twice en route on the down and once on the up. The lack of tables/buffet isn't really a problem. About half the Poole stopping services are booked for 450 operation on weekdays.
06:11 Bournemouth - Weymouth
07:25 Weymouth - Brockenhurst
05:40 Basingstoke - Weymouth
08:20 Weymouth - London Waterloo (a further 450 is attached at Southampton Central)
The Poole stopping services are generally only used for short journeys as they are looped twice en route on the down and once on the up. The lack of tables/buffet isn't really a problem. About half the Poole stopping services are booked for 450 operation on weekdays.
Great thanks I'm a lot clearer on it all now.
Don't suppose theres great reason for the oddity of a 450 being used on the early Weymouth-London run? Perhaps the purpose of this is essentially an ecs to bring the stock back up to London?
Yeah when I was at Southampton I noticed some Poole stoppers being 450s.
This also reveals why some Eastleigh services are 450s if half the Poole stoppers are too. This is the same for those originating from Southampton I think.
Don't suppose theres great reason for the oddity of a 450 being used on the early Weymouth-London run? Perhaps the purpose of this is essentially an ecs to bring the stock back up to London?
Yeah when I was at Southampton I noticed some Poole stoppers being 450s.
This also reveals why some Eastleigh services are 450s if half the Poole stoppers are too. This is the same for those originating from Southampton I think.
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