Central line train destination

Busman · 2 Oct 2023

Following some operational issues today with the Central line - and let's be honest, when isn't there - some trains were being terminated at Woodford to platform 1 and then heading back to London which was an absolute result for me because it guaranteed my bum would get a seat. However, this thread isn't about getting a seat on a seat devoid of any cushion, no, when the train was pulling into the platform, from a distance it looked like 'Woodford' which is fair enough but as it got closer, it said 'Waterloo'.

Why would a CL train have Waterloo as a pre-programmed destination when it doesn't touch south of the river? Is it because the trains are related and when they were made they had destinations set across both lines? If so, why did it say Waterloo? A bug in the system? A driver error? Sadly, you won't see Woodford on the Waterloo & City line as destination screens are now static.

So many questions .....

Very odd but fascinating at the same time.

Anyway, does anyone know? :idea:

RailUK Forums

Dstock7080 · 2 Oct 2023

all 1992 Stock have the same destination code software; so Central trains can show 'Waterloo' and 'Bank'.
Ongar is also still available.

Sunil_P · 2 Oct 2023

Waterloo and Bank line. 8-)

Busman · 2 Oct 2023

Dstock7080 said:
all 1992 Stock have the same destination code software; so Central trains can show 'Waterloo' and 'Bank'.
Ongar is also still available.

Indeed, you still see Ongar as a destination when some trains are parked up in sidings and depots.

Why do they still appear though, is a glitch with the system or do drivers do it for what 'could have been'?

MaidaVale · 5 Oct 2023

Some T/Operators still choose to set Ongar, Bank or Waterloo if in a siding or depot, providing they know the right codes for the destination system, which are not displayed on the regular list of codes found either physically on the trains or within the duty books/stock handbook. They should not be used in service, so I assume what you saw was a wrong code inputted by the driver.

The current destination system, despite having newer physical displays, still runs off of the same system as it did from new, hence the presence of Ongar (Only one 92 ever made it up there on test from my knowledge). I'm unsure as to whether or not the CLIP Project (ongoing refurbishments) will see the removal of these destinations with the new system although I assume this to be the case. Bank and Waterloo are likely only on there for compatibility reasons with the W&C stock from new.

bakerstreet · 6 Oct 2023

TomBradford said:
Only one 92 ever made it up there on test from my knowledge

I’ve got a photo of that somewhere

MaidaVale · 6 Oct 2023

bakerstreet said:
I’ve got a photo of that somewhere

Not my photos credit to Paul Smith on Flickr. Shows 91035 and 91033 at both Ongar and Blake Hall. You can also see the original destination/number displays clearly in these photos which may help to explain as to why the destinations are still on the system.

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar 91033 leading

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

LU 92 stock on test passing Blake Hall (Epping-Ongar)

London Underground 92 Stock passing the closed Blake Hall station on the Epping Ongar branch

www.flickr.com

London Underground 92 Stock on test at Ongar 91035 leading

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar 91033-91035

www.flickr.com

LT 92 Stock Central Line Train 91035 on test at Ongar

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

LT 92 Stock on test at Ongar, 91033 at rear

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

bakerstreet · 6 Oct 2023

!

TomBradford said:
Not my photos credit to Paul Smith on Flickr. Shows 91035 and 91033 at both Ongar and Blake Hall. You can also see the original destination/number displays clearly in these photos which may help to explain as to why the destinations are still on the system.

Thanks for posting those!

DerekC · 6 Oct 2023

Busman said:
Indeed, you still see Ongar as a destination when some trains are parked up in sidings and depots.

Why do they still appear though, is a glitch with the system or do drivers do it for what 'could have been'?

DLR cleaners used to set "Lewisham" as the destination when they had cleaned a unit, long before the extension was even started. Maybe the LU cleaners do the same with Ongar?

Busman · 9 Oct 2023

TomBradford said:
Not my photos credit to Paul Smith on Flickr. Shows 91035 and 91033 at both Ongar and Blake Hall. You can also see the original destination/number displays clearly in these photos which may help to explain as to why the destinations are still on the system.

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar 91033 leading

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

LU 92 stock on test passing Blake Hall (Epping-Ongar)

London Underground 92 Stock passing the closed Blake Hall station on the Epping Ongar branch

www.flickr.com

London Underground 92 Stock on test at Ongar 91035 leading

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar 91033-91035

www.flickr.com

LT 92 Stock Central Line Train 91035 on test at Ongar

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

LT 92 Stock on test at Ongar, 91033 at rear

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

Absolutely superb. If only it still ran to this day.

321over360 · 24 Oct 2023

Train destinations on the 1992 stock can be funny, last night i got a train going East at Stratford (it was a Hainault v Newbury Park service) and on the front it showed White City, when I got in, it said "This is a Central Line train to Hainault v Newbury Park".

Even more bizarre a week or so ago, I was at newbury park and just missed a train but i heard it announce "this is a waterloo & city line train to" by which time the doors had closed.

I have also seen a train with Hainault v Newbury Park on the front but Loughton on the back.

Another anomaly was a Hainault train, but had Epping on the Destination blind, when it was at Wanstead, it announced "This is Wanstead, This is a Central Line train to Epping". I was hoping when i was at Redbridge i could video it, but the driver must have fixed it cos it was announcing correctly as a Hainault v Newbury Park service.

Busman · 30 Oct 2023

321over360 said:
Train destinations on the 1992 stock can be funny, last night i got a train going East at Stratford (it was a Hainault v Newbury Park service) and on the front it showed White City, when I got in, it said "This is a Central Line train to Hainault v Newbury Park".

Even more bizarre a week or so ago, I was at newbury park and just missed a train but i heard it announce "this is a waterloo & city line train to" by which time the doors had closed.

I have also seen a train with Hainault v Newbury Park on the front but Loughton on the back.

Another anomaly was a Hainault train, but had Epping on the Destination blind, when it was at Wanstead, it announced "This is Wanstead, This is a Central Line train to Epping". I was hoping when i was at Redbridge i could video it, but the driver must have fixed it cos it was announcing correctly as a Hainault v Newbury Park service.

Not as odd as the observations above but another one I find is strange is once the train passes Newbury Park, the announcements still say 'Hainault via Newbury Park' at Barkingside and Fairlop.

And one more ... at Hainault, even when trains when when around the loop to London in both directions, why don't or/ didn't the announcements operate as 'Ealing Broadway via Newbury Park' or 'West Ruislip via Woodford'.

357 · 30 Oct 2023

Busman said:
Not as odd as the observations above but another one I find is strange is once the train passes Newbury Park, the announcements still say 'Hainault via Newbury Park' at Barkingside and Fairlop.

And one more ... at Hainault, even when trains when when around the loop to London in both directions, why don't or/ didn't the announcements operate as 'Ealing Broadway via Newbury Park' or 'West Ruislip via Woodford'.

The reason is because the system is from the late 80s/early 90s and can't auto update a destination mid route.

For those who are interested, manually triggered DVA code 36 is "thank you for traveling on the Waterloo and City line".

Destination 90 is Bank, 95 is Waterloo and 99 is Ongar.

Assuming the above hasn't changed at any point in the last 15 years!

Station announcements for Bank and Waterloo are also on there but I've forgotten the numbers.

Sunil_P · 30 Oct 2023

Only a few trains a day go through to London via Woodford.

MaidaVale · 31 Oct 2023

Busman said:
Not as odd as the observations above but another one I find is strange is once the train passes Newbury Park, the announcements still say 'Hainault via Newbury Park' at Barkingside and Fairlop.

And one more ... at Hainault, even when trains when when around the loop to London in both directions, why don't or/ didn't the announcements operate as 'Ealing Broadway via Newbury Park' or 'West Ruislip via Woodford'.

Interestingly the Dot Matrix displays on the platforms still display "Hainault via Newbury Park" at Newbury Park, Fairlop and Barkingside by default, although the signaller can change these through the signalling system manually if they want to, It's just obviously not done as this would have to be repeated for every single train.

RacsoMoquette · 3 Dec 2023

Just out of curiosity, did the Central Line 1992TS carry card destination displays akin to the units of the Waterloo and City Line? The latter units only had them during the best part of 1996 due to persistent reliability problems with the system, often involving poor visibility and flickering text being an issue.

Also when did the original style destination and train set number displays get upgraded to their Preasant appearance? As if I remember correctly, the original font was comparable to the style on Class 465 Networker units. But why was it changed? Seeing as the updated displays which still exist today ( Pre CLIPED units at least) has always been poor quality due to flickering at quite a frequent rate and sometimes certain letters seem completely deformed!

Dstock7080 · 3 Dec 2023

Yes the original destination displays were LCD and quickly deteriorated to the point that card destinations were used instead.
The displays were changed to dot-matrix units that are now being replaced again under CLIP.

RacsoMoquette · 3 Dec 2023

Thankyou for that valuable information, if that was so, why did the LCD units on the 1995 and 1996TS stand the test of time and lasted until the units respective mid life referbishments. Were they more robust and superior quality to the similar however less advanced units on the 1992TS?

ijmad · 4 Dec 2023

Dstock7080 said:
Yes the original destination displays were LCD and quickly deteriorated to the point that card destinations were used instead.
The displays were changed to dot-matrix units that are now being replaced again under CLIP.

For the 1992TS actually on the W&C, the displays were replaced during the 2006 refurbishment with fixed signs saying 'Bank' on on end and 'Waterloo' on the other as the trains only go to these two stations and are never turned.

Sad Sprinter · 15 Dec 2023

MaidaVale said:
Not my photos credit to Paul Smith on Flickr. Shows 91035 and 91033 at both Ongar and Blake Hall. You can also see the original destination/number displays clearly in these photos which may help to explain as to why the destinations are still on the system.

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar 91033 leading

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

LU 92 stock on test passing Blake Hall (Epping-Ongar)

London Underground 92 Stock passing the closed Blake Hall station on the Epping Ongar branch

www.flickr.com

London Underground 92 Stock on test at Ongar 91035 leading

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar 91033-91035

www.flickr.com

LT 92 Stock Central Line Train 91035 on test at Ongar

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

LT 92 Stock on test at Ongar, 91033 at rear

London Underground 92 Stock at Ongar

www.flickr.com

They really were the best looking tube trains ever.

When they were ordered, was it presumed Ongar would become a regular destination hence the inclusion of the name in the electronic system?

MaidaVale · 27 Dec 2023

It appears an Easter Egg has been added to the 92s updated PIS that includes an Ongar announcement (I assume when the Ongar destination is set)

Not my video

southern442 · 27 Dec 2023

I'd imagine that's maybe just the PA test announcement to check if the system is working? It's a nice touch.

ballas · 27 Dec 2023

MaidaVale said:
It appears an Easter Egg has been added to the 92s updated PIS that includes an Ongar announcement (I assume when the Ongar destination is set)

Not my video

I hear that this specific announcement is being removed from the system before trains enter passenger service... besides, whoever created this message missed the not insignificant fact that the line to Ongar closed in September, not March!

RacsoMoquette · 30 Dec 2023

I highly suspect that the Ongar closure announcement will probably be hardly ever initiated, as it does appear to be a bit of an oddity compared to the rest of the Manuel announcements. However on the other hand it gives customers a brief insight in to the recent history of the line.

southern442 · 30 Dec 2023

RacsoMoquette said:
I highly suspect that the Ongar closure announcement will probably be hardly ever initiated, as it does appear to be a bit of an oddity compared to the rest of the Manuel announcements. However on the other hand it gives customers a brief insight in to the recent history of the line.

I am almost certain it is not intended for passengers to ever hear, probably more something to check the PA system is working.

bluegoblin7 · 31 Dec 2023

As already mentioned, the intention is that it will be removed before the trains enter full service. It isn't uncommon for test messages to be added whilst the final specification of the 'proper' messages is still being finalised.

Given that (again, as mentioned) it's factually inaccurate that's probably for the best anyway.

D7666 · 31 Dec 2023

What you mean us

engineers add unusual test messages to systems ???? :lol:

Test messages with unusual content often draw feedback - then we know these things work; if we just put "testing testing testing 1 2 3 4 5" would anyone take any notice ?

BTW, before anyone asks, I am not guilty of Ongar, nor indeed of any audible or visual message anywhere. Well not currently anyway

Sad Sprinter · 31 Dec 2023

For one moment I thought Ongar could be back on the map again...

Central line train destination

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