Fiasco in Leeds (27/01)

yorksrob · 27 Jan 2024

Was aiming to get my usual train back to Normy this evening.

Arrived in Leeds to find the train full and standing, to the extent that no one could physically get on.

When I enquired as to why this situation ensued, I was told it was because the Wakefield Westgate line was closed and people didn't want to get a bus.

I was then directed down to the dark arches for a rail replacement bus. Needless to say, there was no one to be seen, no sign of any bus, no one with a clip board to reassure passengers.

I gave up and threw myself on the mercy of the public bus system.

If this is the best the country can do, God help us.

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RailWonderer · 27 Jan 2024

Did you know there was rail replacement before leaving home? I see the Leeds Normanton service is hourly on Saturdays so you could have waited for the next one or asked customer information if you were waiting in the right place for the RR bus and asked how often they were running and when the next one is.

Living on the GE I am used to weekend engineering though I understand it can be a nasty surprise when you don't expect it, so I'm sorry to hear it.

yorksrob · 27 Jan 2024

Theoretically I shouldn't have needed rail replacement as my line wasn't closed.

Poolie · 28 Jan 2024

Sad thing is there are so many similar threads nearly every day.

185 · 28 Jan 2024

With all that space at the front of the station, no passengers should end up in the dark arches for replacement buses. Only buses that belong down there are football specials.

The pile of 30+ taxis queued up should be removed elsewhere, perhaps relocated outside Wetherspoons. Similar to other NR major stations, that area should be solely for Airport buses, city link buses and replacement buses.

CaptainHaddock · 28 Jan 2024

yorksrob said:
Was aiming to get my usual train back to Normy this evening.

Arrived in Leeds to find the train full and standing, to the extent that no one could physically get on.

When I enquired as to why this situation ensued, I was told it was because the Wakefield Westgate line was closed and people didn't want to get a bus.

I was then directed down to the dark arches for a rail replacement bus. Needless to say, there was no one to be seen, no sign of any bus, no one with a clip board to reassure passengers.

I gave up and threw myself on the mercy of the public bus system.

If this is the best the country can do, God help us.

I sympathise. I was on the 1932 Leeds to Sheffield crawler via Castleford and it was ludicrously busy. You'd think that Northern might have considered doubling up the units considering there were no trains running via the Dearne Valley but sadly it seems there's no joined up thinking at Northern these days.

HamworthyGoods · 28 Jan 2024

185 said:
With all that space at the front of the station, no passengers should end up in the dark arches for replacement buses. Only buses that belong down there are football specials.

The pile of 30+ taxis queued up should be removed elsewhere, perhaps relocated outside Wetherspoons. Similar to other NR major stations, that area should be solely for Airport buses, city link buses and replacement buses.

Why do you say the only buses that belong down there are football specials, that is incredibly discriminatory - they are passengers the same as everyone else.

You may not like football yourself, indeed I am not a football person, but I do know it brings huge amounts of revenue to the railway especially during winter where there is often little other discretionary travel.

RHolmes · 28 Jan 2024

185 said:
With all that space at the front of the station, no passengers should end up in the dark arches for replacement buses. Only buses that belong down there are football specials.

The station entrance is currently shut for renovation and pedestrianisation. It’s been shut for a few months now

185 said:
The pile of 30+ taxis queued up should be removed elsewhere, perhaps relocated outside Wetherspoons.

That’s where the taxis are currently located

61653 HTAFC · 28 Jan 2024

HamworthyGoods said:
Why do you say the only buses that belong down there are football specials, that is incredibly discriminatory and narrow minded. It is far from an appropriate comment - they are passengers the same as everyone else.

You may not like football yourself, indeed I am not a football person, but I do know it brings huge amounts of revenue to the railway especially during winter where there is often little other discretionary travel.

Didn't think there was anything prejudicial in the post myself, just that shuttles to Elland Road for the football will involve short bursts of groups of supporters as they arrive on different trains, all heading to the same place. Very different crowd dynamics to rail replacement buses. Though games at ER do tend to attract the rowdier element of visiting supporters, as do games at Huddersfield (though in our case it's more down to the great pubs and the near-guarantee of three points!).

The poor management of RRBs (in general, not just in Leeds) is one of the factors that swayed me towards buying a car, rather than putting up with the chaos that the Trans-Pennine Upgrade work will cause.

Andyh82 · 28 Jan 2024

185 said:
With all that space at the front of the station, no passengers should end up in the dark arches for replacement buses. Only buses that belong down there are football specials.

The pile of 30+ taxis queued up should be removed elsewhere, perhaps relocated outside Wetherspoons. Similar to other NR major stations, that area should be solely for Airport buses, city link buses and replacement buses.

I assume it’s a long time since you last visited Leeds?

The front of the station is closed for regeneration and has been for quite a while meaning no access to vehicles of any sort

Gemz91 · 28 Jan 2024

HamworthyGoods said:
Why do you say the only buses that belong down there are football specials, that is incredibly discriminatory - they are passengers the same as everyone else.

You may not like football yourself, indeed I am not a football person, but I do know it brings huge amounts of revenue to the railway especially during winter where there is often little other discretionary travel.

The new location for the football specials in Leeds is around a ten minute walk from the station (although I’ve not used them since there new location). If they used the dark arches the buses would be closer to certain match day pubs in town and closer to the trains. Would be much better putting them there to where they have currently moved them to.

Iskra · 28 Jan 2024

Gemz91 said:
The new location for the football specials in Leeds is around a ten minute walk from the station (although I’ve not used them since there new location). If they used the dark arches the buses would be closer to certain match day pubs in town and closer to the trains. Would be much better putting them there to where they have currently moved them to.

Just fyi, there is a new, ‘new location’ due to other construction work. The current location is outside Cafe Nero on Sovereign Street.

61653 HTAFC said:
Didn't think there was anything prejudicial in the post myself, just that shuttles to Elland Road for the football will involve short bursts of groups of supporters as they arrive on different trains, all heading to the same place. Very different crowd dynamics to rail replacement buses. Though games at ER do tend to attract the rowdier element of visiting supporters, as do games at Huddersfield (though in our case it's more down to the great pubs and the near-guarantee of three points!).

The poor management of RRBs (in general, not just in Leeds) is one of the factors that swayed me towards buying a car, rather than putting up with the chaos that the Trans-Pennine Upgrade work will cause.

As a regular match goer, I’d not say Elland Road is particularly rowdy anymore. Being in the Premier League, having to be a club member to get tickets and other more gradual societal changes has gentrified and sanitised the matchday fanbase. There hasn’t been any trouble at Elland Road from the home fans for years now.

yorksrob said:
Was aiming to get my usual train back to Normy this evening.

Arrived in Leeds to find the train full and standing, to the extent that no one could physically get on.

When I enquired as to why this situation ensued, I was told it was because the Wakefield Westgate line was closed and people didn't want to get a bus.

I was then directed down to the dark arches for a rail replacement bus. Needless to say, there was no one to be seen, no sign of any bus, no one with a clip board to reassure passengers.

I gave up and threw myself on the mercy of the public bus system.

If this is the best the country can do, God help us.

I agree Leeds station is a mess, and it is a particularly confusing place once you are under the arches. As a minimum there should be a clearly marked walking route to the RRB stop, with further signs there. Have you contacted Northern or Network Rail about this?

D1537 · 28 Jan 2024

The same thing - for a different reason - happened on a Saturday night before Christmas (while the German Market was on), when the 22:51 Birmingham-Northampton was only a 4-car 350 instead of an 8, and left people on the platform. It is the last train to Rugby, Long Bucky and Northampton. Passengers were told to get the last Coventry train and a taxi from there and to claim it back - which is fine if you have the money, Coventry to Northampton will be the best part of £75 at that time of night!

As an addendum, a couple of Saturdays later a friend of mine was attending a gig in Birmingham and was planning on getting the 22:51 back, so I warned him to get to New Street early. However, WMT solved his problem for him by cancelling the train completely.

Efini92 · 28 Jan 2024

CaptainHaddock said:
I sympathise. I was on the 1932 Leeds to Sheffield crawler via Castleford and it was ludicrously busy. You'd think that Northern might have considered doubling up the units considering there were no trains running via the Dearne Valley but sadly it seems there's no joined up thinking at Northern these days.

This is northern we’re talking about. They are surprised every Christmas when the evening trains are full with hundreds still on the platform trying to get home from the Christmas markets.

yorksrob · 28 Jan 2024

CaptainHaddock said:
I sympathise. I was on the 1932 Leeds to Sheffield crawler via Castleford and it was ludicrously busy. You'd think that Northern might have considered doubling up the units considering there were no trains running via the Dearne Valley but sadly it seems there's no joined up thinking at Northern these days.

Yes, doubling up would have been sensible. (Maybe they eventually did after I'd hot footed it to the bus station !)

Bantamzen · 28 Jan 2024

yorksrob said:
Was aiming to get my usual train back to Normy this evening.

Arrived in Leeds to find the train full and standing, to the extent that no one could physically get on.

When I enquired as to why this situation ensued, I was told it was because the Wakefield Westgate line was closed and people didn't want to get a bus.

I was then directed down to the dark arches for a rail replacement bus. Needless to say, there was no one to be seen, no sign of any bus, no one with a clip board to reassure passengers.

I gave up and threw myself on the mercy of the public bus system.

If this is the best the country can do, God help us.

A few weeks ago I was wandering around Leeds and saw some RRBs parked up on Sovereign Street. However as in your case I couldn't see where passengers would pick them up, or anybody about to direct them to the buses.

yorksrob · 28 Jan 2024

Iskra said:
Just fyi, there is a new, ‘new location’ due to other construction work. The current location is outside Cafe Nero on Sovereign Street.

As a regular match goer, I’d not say Elland Road is particularly rowdy anymore. Being in the Premier League, having to be a club member to get tickets and other more gradual societal changes has gentrified and sanitised the matchday fanbase. There hasn’t been any trouble at Elland Road from the home fans for years now.

I agree Leeds station is a mess, and it is a particularly confusing place once you are under the arches. As a minimum there should be a clearly marked walking route to the RRB stop, with further signs there. Have you contacted Northern or Network Rail about this?

Bantamzen said:
A few weeks ago I was wandering around Leeds and saw some RRBs parked up on Sovereign Street. However as in your case I couldn't see where passengers would pick them up, or anybody about to direct them to the buses.

Yes, considering the station frontage is likely to be OOU for some time, they could do with some better signage down there.

Master29 · 28 Jan 2024

HamworthyGoods said:
Why do you say the only buses that belong down there are football specials, that is incredibly discriminatory - they are passengers the same as everyone else.

You may not like football yourself, indeed I am not a football person, but I do know it brings huge amounts of revenue to the railway especially during winter where there is often little other discretionary travel.

Passengers they may be but I don't think somehow they're as fussy as a seasoned traveller when it comes to aesthetics.

YorksLad12 · 28 Jan 2024

Iskra said:
I agree Leeds station is a mess, and it is a particularly confusing place once you are under the arches. As a minimum there should be a clearly marked walking route to the RRB stop, with further signs there. Have you contacted Northern or Network Rail about this?

yorksrob said:
Yes, considering the station frontage is likely to be OOU for some time, they could do with some better signage down there.

While I'm not normally one to defend the current carnage, the RRB stop itself is very well signed, with vinyls in the shelter. The first stop before it has vinyls pointing you to the actual stop in case you went to the wrong one. It's just the odd signs in the station pointing you towards the Southern Entrance instead of the one everyone heads for that you need to worry about. Haven't been there for a while, but I'd hope there was a green sign pointing you the right way when you exit as well...

Sovereign Street is becoming one-way, with a two-way cycle lane being installed, so the football specials have been moved further back from the junction with Neville Street. I'd like to think that the short stretch from the junction with Swinegate back to Briggate will become two-way to allow traffic to escape the short way rather than have to loop all the way round, but we shall see.

All that said: the last plan I saw was for RRBs to run from Wellington Street; there should be a new stop (replacing an old stop) just before the new loading bay. The pavement is closed off at the moment while the new building goes up, which might be why they're still going from Neville Street.

The current taxi, PHV and private vehicle experience at Leeds assumes that drivers have some sense about them. Mostly, they don't.

johntea · 28 Jan 2024

yorksrob said:
Yes, doubling up would have been sensible. (Maybe they eventually did after I'd hot footed it to the bus station !)

Surely Northern could have just stuck on a few extra Normanton calls on the 'express' services too? (I appreciate this may involve using their brains!)

Although Arriva aren’t much better in deciding the 189 Wakefield - Leeds is now just a Wakefield - Castleford!

Travelmonkey · 29 Jan 2024

Leeds is a farce at the minute and the engineering don't help, my train last night the 2105 XC to Birmingham was diverted and didn't stop at Leeds (shortage of train managers) I had to ask Cross-country on Twitter & they laid on a coach for 2 passengers (me & my partner) but noone on station know anything, no station or TOC staff by the stops just coach drivers trying to organise the cahos for their respective turns.

yorksrob · 29 Jan 2024

johntea said:
Surely Northern could have just stuck on a few extra Normanton calls on the 'express' services too? (I appreciate this may involve using their brains!)

Although Arriva aren’t much better in deciding the 189 Wakefield - Leeds is now just a Wakefield - Castleford!

The express services have finished by this time unfortunately. This was the last train on the Hallam line.

Weekdays there's a later train at 11:03, however this doesn't run on Saturdays.

Iskra · 29 Jan 2024

yorksrob said:
The express services have finished by this time unfortunately. This was the last train on the Hallam line.

Weekdays there's a later train at 11:03, however this doesn't run on Saturdays.

Perhaps a separate coach for Castleford passengers would have been a better idea, and then the service omitting Castleford? This would have ensured longer distance passengers could have been prioritised.

It would help if there was a later last train to Knottingley, to prevent Castleford passengers swamping the long distance service as often happens. But, it all comes down to P17 at Leeds as usual on these routes…

Neptune · 29 Jan 2024

yorksrob said:
The express services have finished by this time unfortunately. This was the last train on the Hallam line.

Was it the 2232? In the end another set was found and went 22 late as a 4 car 195.

Realtime Trains | 2L85 2232 Leeds to Sheffield | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 2L85 2232 departure from Leeds to Sheffield on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Iskra · 29 Jan 2024

Neptune said:
Was it the 2232? In the end another set was found and went 22 late as a 4 car 195.

Realtime Trains | 2L85 2232 Leeds to Sheffield | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 2L85 2232 departure from Leeds to Sheffield on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

To Northern’s credit, when I have travelled on late Leeds-Chapeltown/Meadowhall/Sheffield services, they have been good at producing another unit like this when needed.

CaptainHaddock · 29 Jan 2024

Passing through Leeds on my way to work this morning I was amused to see a sign atop a stand clearly stating "Rail replacement bus stop".

It was at the top of the escalators at the southern entrance!

DarloRich · 29 Jan 2024

last time I used a replacement bus from Leeds it picked up outside the main entrance - assume that isn't possible due to the building works in that area.

Bantamzen · 29 Jan 2024

DarloRich said:
last time I used a replacement bus from Leeds it picked up outside the main entrance - assume that isn't possible due to the building works in that area.

No, New Station Street is completely closed and partly a construction site for the new pedestrianised area, and Neville Street / Swinegate is partly blocked off for the same.

RHolmes · 29 Jan 2024

CaptainHaddock said:
Passing through Leeds on my way to work this morning I was amused to see a sign atop a stand clearly stating "Rail replacement bus stop".

It was at the top of the escalators at the southern entrance!

It’s a directional sign that has a white arrow pointing towards the ticket gates

Rail replacement at Leeds is currently managed by entering the main ticket gates, heading up the footbridge, exiting the southern gates, down the escalators, walking under the station and pick up point is outside Hilton Leeds

TUC · 29 Jan 2024

RHolmes said:
It’s a directional sign that has a white arrow pointing towards the ticket gates

Rail replacement at Leeds is currently managed by entering the main ticket gates, heading up the footbridge, exiting the southern gates, down the escalators, walking under the station and pick up point is outside Hilton Leeds

So in other words the arrow is next to useless?

Fiasco in Leeds (27/01)

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