crosscountry voyager failed windows

occone · 28 Jan 2024

I've noticed that basically every crosscountry voyager has one if not two failed windows these days, often sporting a thriving ecosystem inside between the panes.

You can usually see water running down the insides, mould and moss growing, and inside you get no view out. Addding to that - easily half the light bulbs were out on the train. Makes it extremely gloomy. Let's not even talk about the rattly panels and threadbare seats.

What an absolute mess. I know XC have a refurb theoretically coming up but their maintenance is extremely poor. Are they unable to maintain their trains or just not bothered?

Attached is a photo from today - forgive the Photoshop (it's hard to tell I know, but I didn't want my face on here so have a ferret instead), but I wanted to show how bad it's gotten.

How on earth do XC allow this? It's not rare and I've rarely seen such a problem on any other type of train. Do they not make windows any more that fit these trains?

RailUK Forums

MCR247 · 28 Jan 2024

This seems to be an issue which impacts 222s as well. There was a period maybe a year ago or so when we had a few threads on here talking about how common this was on EMRs 222s. They seem to have come through the worst of it now and it seems much less common to encounter, say, a carriage with multiple blown out windows.

I will say though, the XC ones do seem to be allowed to fester for a very long time. I remember being on an XC 220 where the blown out window had resulted in moss and mould growing on the outside of the window and almost covering the bottom portion of the rubber window surround. I quickly moved seats before the train got busy to avoid it getting on my clothes.

EDIT: 3 years ago?? Wow https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-220-221-222-window-survey.217220/

AJDesiro · 28 Jan 2024

It’s worth noting that XC don’t maintain any of their trains. The 22X are maintained by Alstom and the 170s are maintained by WMT. This is an issue that’s also impacting the Avanti 221s. I’ve not noticed this on the XC ones, but I’d imagine it’ll be fixed when the units get refurbished - they must be due a bodywork overhaul soon.

3RDGEN · 28 Jan 2024

If a third party maintainer changes the blown windows out it's likely at their own cost under the maintenance contract. The longer you run them in service the more chance someone will "brick" the window then you can charge the operator for replacement under vandalism. You would expect them to get replaced during the refurbishment program as it's easier to plan in when the units are stood down, doesn't interrupt planned maintenance and the costs maybe shared with XC.

Russel · 28 Jan 2024

There is supposedly a refurb program coming up for the XC fleet, so may be addressed then...

Though given XC's track record, what they consider refurbishment will probably include some new seat covers and removing any DB branding.

WillPS · 28 Jan 2024

AJDesiro said:
It’s worth noting that XC don’t maintain any of their trains. The 22X are maintained by Alstom and the 170s are maintained by WMT. This is an issue that’s also impacting the Avanti 221s. I’ve not noticed this on the XC ones, but I’d imagine it’ll be fixed when the units get refurbished - they must be due a bodywork overhaul soon.

Is it perhaps the age old issue of XC Voyagers being used more intensively than their cousins (too intensively perhaps) and also not getting to Central Rivers enough?

Snow1964 · 29 Jan 2024

3RDGEN said:
If a third party maintainer changes the blown windows out it's likely at their own cost under the maintenance contract. The longer you run them in service the more chance someone will "brick" the window then you can charge the operator for replacement under vandalism. You would expect them to get replaced during the refurbishment program as it's easier to plan in when the units are stood down, doesn't interrupt planned maintenance and the costs maybe shared with XC.

Regardless of replacing glass, you would think the maintenance contract includes basic cleaning, at least to a frequency that isn't long enough for moss to grow.

Of course there are two sides to a contract, and someone in XC has accepted the train back into service without saying it is not good enough. Cannot be that hard to give it quick inspection to check it meets contractual standard. You wouldn't get a pilot taking an insufficiently maintained plane out.

43066 · 29 Jan 2024

Snow1964 said:
Of course there are two sides to a contract, and someone in XC has accepted the train back into service without saying it is not good enough. Cannot be that hard to give it quick inspection to check it meets contractual standard. You wouldn't get a pilot taking an insufficiently maintained plane out.

At my operator if windows are shattered they’re inspected, taped up and (assuming the train is allowed to remain in service) a notice is placed in driving cabs limiting speed, and they’re replaced almost immediately. Merely “blown” windows aren’t a safety critical fault.

Pilots are expected to take aircraft into service with a variety of faults, so long as their “minimum equipment list” and operator requirements are complied with, so it isn’t a good comparison.

occone · 29 Jan 2024

I think my bugbear isn't that the window seal is blown, becaus that can happen, but that's it's been left like that so long that the outside has made its way between the panes and made itself at home.

There was *lichen* and mould inside the window I was at yesterday. That doesn't happen quickly.

I'm going to email XC - I'm sure I'll get a reassuring runaround about how quality is their very top concern and how valuable but misplaced the concerns are.

class 9 · 29 Jan 2024

Snow1964 said:
Regardless of replacing glass, you would think the maintenance contract includes basic cleaning, at least to a frequency that isn't long enough for moss to grow.

Of course there are two sides to a contract, and someone in XC has accepted the train back into service without saying it is not good enough. Cannot be that hard to give it quick inspection to check it meets contractual standard. You wouldn't get a pilot taking an insufficiently maintained plane out.

I take XC Voyagers on & off depots, going onto depot they're often a disgrace( filthy passengers detritus) bringing them off in a morning and they've been cleaned IMO to a perfectly acceptable standard( despite their cosmetically tired appearance), quite how you expect a team of cleaners to remove moss from inside a double glazed unit is beyond me!

Russel · 29 Jan 2024

class 9 said:
I take XC Voyagers on & off depots, going onto depot they're often a disgrace( filthy passengers detritus) bringing them off in a morning and they've been cleaned IMO to a perfectly acceptable standard( despite their cosmetically tired appearance), quite how you expect a team of cleaners to remove moss from inside a double glazed unit is beyond me!

My experience is similar to what you're saying here, they are perfectly acceptable in the morning but terrible in the evening, with how intensive they are worked and the sheer volume of people they carry thought, it's easy to see how they get into such a state.

eisenach · 29 Jan 2024

I travelled on a XC 220 on Friday from Bristol Temple Meads to Plymouth. It's only the second time I've ever been on one, the other was from Chesterfield to Leeds 5 years or so ago.
They're nasty little trains. Cramped, claustrophobic, tired, and on Friday, insanely hot. Passengers the length of the carriage were complaining of the heat.

MCR247 · 29 Jan 2024

class 9 said:
I take XC Voyagers on & off depots, going onto depot they're often a disgrace( filthy passengers detritus) bringing them off in a morning and they've been cleaned IMO to a perfectly acceptable standard( despite their cosmetically tired appearance), quite how you expect a team of cleaners to remove moss from inside a double glazed unit is beyond me!

Unfortunately it isn’t always inside the double glazed unit though. It can be on the window, the rubber surrounds and spreading onto the panelling below

XCTurbostar · 29 Jan 2024

MCR247 said:
Unfortunately it isn’t always inside the double glazed unit though. It can be on the window, the rubber surrounds and spreading onto the panelling below

Exactly right. I have this picture of an XC 220 dated 2015..
Now that clearly hasn’t just appeared in a week.

greyman42 · 30 Jan 2024

eisenach said:
They're nasty little trains. Cramped, claustrophobic, tired, and on Friday, insanely hot. Passengers the length of the carriage were complaining of the heat.

In the middle of winter you want lovely warm trains, far better than being cold.

crosscountry voyager failed windows

occone

Member

Attachments

RailUK Forums

MCR247

Established Member

AJDesiro

Member

3RDGEN

Member

Russel

Member

WillPS

Established Member

Snow1964

Established Member

43066

Established Member

occone

Member

class 9

Member

Russel

Member

eisenach

Member

MCR247

Established Member

XCTurbostar

Established Member

Attachments

greyman42

Established Member