The tunnel is only part of the cost…
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Elizabeth Line - future extensions?
- Thread starter William3000
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The tunnel is only part of the cost…
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AlastairFraser
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Transit Orientated Development - essentially a Yank term for houses built primarily around a public transport node (e.g. a station), where the inhabitants are intended to travel using the transport services at the node for basically every journey they make.
The tunnel is only part of the cost, but the modifications needed to the GWML between Langley and Iver wouldn't be cheap either.
Nor at West Drayton…
AlastairFraser
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It certainly wouldn't be a priority, but a tunnel Ealing Broadway to West Ealing and a take over of the Greenford branch line would certainly help boost passengers numbers on that line and utilise spare capacity on the Ealing Broadway Central Line terminators.
Depends, if you kept it as a eastbound only loop (as your basic option), it wouldn't be horrendously expensive.
Except for passenger journey time
AlastairFraser
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In a world of limited budgets, passenger journey time is not the metric to judge everything by.
Mikey C
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On the Southeastern side, restoring frequencies on the Southeastern routes would be a far cheaper way of increasing capacity than extending the Elizabeth Line.
The point being:
spend nothing, no increase in journey time.
spend the best part of a billion - increase journey time.
which option makes sense?
AlastairFraser
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No increase in journey time for T5 - western GWML, but a more seamless changeover than at H and H.
Either way, it's a marginal project that would only go ahead with Heathrow money.
It’s not marginal, it’s an absolute no-hoper, and Heathrow wouldn’t touch it.
Heathrow weren’t interested in payinng for the Western or Southern links either, unless they were forced to as part of the third runway plans.
AlbertBeale
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Or as part of being forced to ensure that an increasing proportion of the access to the airport is by pubic transport.
That would need legislation. Although I hope you mean Public.
AlbertBeale
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Woops - thanks - my mind might have been wandering there...
But I'm not sure about legislation - presumably planning permission (such as for expansion of Heathrow or something else the airport wants, even short of a third runway) could have conditions attached, such as any growth in passenger numbers needing to happen without any increase in road movements to the airport. If the airport wanted to expand, it might then need to fund more rail infrastructure.
leytongabriel
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Yes very well filled in the centre but there's a lot of air being carried to Shenfield. Romford ( or Gidea Pk for turnround) to Shenfield really doesn't need current level of off-peak services, seems quite wasteful. So an alternative eastern terminus would be good. Id connect up the Lea Valley personally, know that would mega work would be needed in the Stratford area, but there's a big poverty zone there, desperate for an econmic boost.
Sorry yes, that’s right, but that’s what I meant (but didn’t write) as ‘part of the third runway plans’ which included new terminal(s).
But it’s reasonable to assume that the suggested ‘loop’ back to West Drayton would do little if anything to improve public transport usage. It would probably make things worse, to be honest.
How could linking up the Lea Valley even be done without defying the laws of physics given all the buildings and other railway lines at Stratford?
AlastairFraser
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If you wanted to divert some EL from east of Stratford, sending some services off the GEML reliefs at Forest Gate junction onto the Gospel Oak to Barking line and then taking over the portion of the c2c Fenchurch St to Southend Central via Grays service east of Barking would be a decent idea.
This would provide direct service between East London and South Essex, including Lakeside Shopping Centre (connected to Chafford Hundred station) and Stanford-le-Hope/Tilbury for the ports near those stations.
Problem is that the capacity the Elizabeth Line offers in East London is needed out to Romford and Gidea Park. It is essentially east of there that the trains carry fresh air. Turning off at Forest Gate would be too soon.
TrainBoy98
Member
Aware it would take a fair bit of work, and a fair bit of cash, but hypothetically a couple could head from Romford down to Upminster, replacing the Overground.
Not too sure Upminster needs more connections mind, but could free up some space on LTS
Not too sure Upminster needs more connections mind, but could free up some space on LTS
The passenger loadings at Emerson Park would never justify that cash.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
And of course (in the same hypothetical spirit) they could then continue on, taking over the branch from Upminster down to Lakeside and Grays too.... with another "fair bit" of work and "fair bit" of cash. Crayons are such fun if you don't look closely...
TrainBoy98
Member
Very true.
Yes, hypothetically of course (tis "speculative" section after all - some crayon moments allowed
)It's only so poorly used because it's so poorly served. There's no intrinsic difference between the houses around it and those around nearby District Line stations.
Fair bit? I think a shedload of cash and a shedload of work. The EL uses the Electric Lines on the North side of the GEML while the branch is to the south of the Main Lines. Having 2tph blocking both mains and down Upminsters blocking the Up Electric as well is unlikely to be feasible
At the moment getting a train on to the branch requires 2 reversals on the mains.