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Avanti West Coast Withdraws Shrewsbury Service From June 2024

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hornbyfan99

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www.bbc.com

Direct Shropshire-London train service to end

The Department for Transport is blaming a "very low number" of passengers for the change.
www.bbc.com

Direct rail services between Shropshire and London are to end in June.
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Another service facing the axe, with the likes of other services over the past 3 years or so (SWR Bristol services, EMR token service to Leeds and GWR workings to/from Brighton).

I remember the days when Virgin Trains used to run twice daily between London Euston - Shrewsbury with departures from Euston at 10:23 & 18:23 respectively with good connections onwards to the Cambrian Coast.

What are everyone's thoughts?
 
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chris_in_salop

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As far as I am concerned, the handful of direct trains was an irrelevance. Work colleagues going to London continued to drive to Stafford or Warwick Parkway. The slow crawl to Wolves, and then onto Coventry, was not attractive.
 
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sansyy

sansyy

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It’s a lot easier to take a family out to Euston on a train than any sort of car! Try any family of 5+ with luggage and space in a normal sized car.
 
railphotoghw

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Just to clarify the situation as it doesn’t seem very clear in the article, this is an instruction from the Department for Transport to remove the Shrewsbury services, not a decision by Avanti.

However, with WMT increasing to 2tph between Shrewsbury and Birmingham and Avanti running extra services between Birmingham and Euston, it’s actually probably more convenient for the (very few?) commuters taking the full journey between Shrewsbury and Euston than the current morning Avanti direct service which arrives into London just before 10am? As for the point on families, how many are realistically using that direct service? Very few I would imagine, particularly on weekdays.
 
The Snap

The Snap

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chris_in_salop said:
Driving costs half the price of rail, you can go at whatever time you like, and you don't have to go anywhere near the hellish monstrosity that is Euston.

Really I can't see why anyone remotely sane goes anywhere near a train these days.
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Quite. I work on the railway yet haven’t used a train in about 8 months! And that was to get from Manchester to London which, when it runs and isn’t on strike, is usually a pretty good, quick and convenient service compared to driving.

Other than that I wouldn’t dream of using a train for commuting purposes these days…too unreliable, too crowded, and would need to drive to a station to catch a train anyway. I much prefer to drive in my car, in my own space in peace and comfort.

I appreciate though that lots of people don’t have the choice of driving to work for multiple reasons…no parking or expensive parking, congestion chargers etc etc
 
Merseysider

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Would anyone in Shrewsbury actually notice? It’s not like Avanti turn up anyway.
 

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Energy

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railphotoghw said:
However, with WMT increasing to 2tph between Shrewsbury and Birmingham and Avanti running extra services between Birmingham and Euston, it’s actually probably more convenient for the (very few?) commuters taking the full journey between Shrewsbury and Euston than the current morning Avanti direct service which arrives into London just before 10am? As for the point on families, how many are realistically using that direct service? Very few I would imagine, particularly on weekdays.
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DfT saying that it was losing £1.4m and only took 40-60 people per day.

£1.4m/(60*365)= £63.93 loss per passenger. With WMR upping their service to 2tph I don't think cutting this rare service is that bad.
 
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MrJeeves

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Quite frankly, these services don't seem to make much sense to me...

One train to and from London per day, which has to make the trip to and from Birmingham/Wolverhampton before/after the service runs each day?

I do wonder whether Avanti will run a different service instead or just let the unit leave the depot later in the day instead.
 
railphotoghw

railphotoghw

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MrJeeves said:
I do wonder whether Avanti will run a different service instead or just let the unit leave the depot later in the day instead.
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It’ll just come off shed slightly later as the service will start from New Street vice Shrewsbury in the mornings and terminate at Wolverhampton vice Shrewsbury in the evenings.
 
TheGrew

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Bletchleyite said:
Out of the three, two are just somewhere for the non-Glasgow via Birmingham to reverse that isn't clogging a platform at Preston.
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Yeah, I have been on the Blackpool services a few times between Euston and Warrington and the loadings have been good (all via Trent Valley). Generally, I think that most people on the Glasgow services out of Euston are aiming for stations up to Preston, and therefore the Blackpools act as useful peak-time extras. Blackpool is a more convenient place to turn a train than Preston.
 
Llanigraham

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I've used it twice and the loadings were miniscule!
And as has been said, it was quicker staying on the Cambrian service to New St and changing there.
 
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philosopher

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MrJeeves said:
Quite frankly, these services don't seem to make much sense to me...

One train to and from London per day, which has to make the trip to and from Birmingham/Wolverhampton before/after the service runs each day?

I do wonder whether Avanti will run a different service instead or just let the unit leave the depot later in the day instead.
Click to expand...
For a service to be viable, in my view it has to run at least every two hours to allow passengers to use it both ways without being excessively constrained on when they travel. Given there were only one or two Avanti services a day between London and Shrewsbury, for the majority of passengers they would have been better off changing at Crewe or Wolverhampton.

I did use the evening service in 2018 from London to Shrewsbury and was quite lightly loaded after Wolverhampton. Going back I had to change trains at Wolverhampton as the direct trains were not at the times suitable for me.
 
Kite159

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railphotoghw said:
However, with WMT increasing to 2tph between Shrewsbury
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Yes 2tph... a mere 5 minutes apart from each other. More benefit is the times of WMT changing to give Shrewsbury - Birmingham a more even 2tph with the TfW service, rather than the current situation with the WMT following the TfW meaning Shrewsbury - Birmingham was effectively 1tph.

Anyhow as for the Avanti service to Shrewsbury, it would be interesting for the average loadings of passengers beyond Wolverhampton were on the train before it reached Birmingham New Street, i.e. not just passengers whom boarded at Birmingham (or Wolverhampton) solely because it was a train for Shrewsbury. Similar to the token daily LNER services which carry more local passengers than passengers from further afield.

Makes me wonder if the DfT have asked Avanti to scrap the Shrewsbury service to allow the transfer of voyagers from Avanti to XC to happen sooner, as well as saving costs.
 
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zwk500

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In general, I feel the world's long since moved on from the once a day morning/evening 'Businessman's London trip' being worth it to the railway or the country. Zoom/Teams video conferencing has killed a lot of the demand, and company policies now tend to focus on controlling cost so first-class walk ups aren't as big a money puller as they were.
In this context it's hardly surprising a relatively small city that doesn't get a particularly fast journey to London is struggling to generate enough traffic. If the market is there, trains should run through the day (1tp2h as extension of core 1tph paths is reasonable), and effort put into advertising the routes (Harrogate springs to mind). If the market isn't big enough for it then the revenue lost from those put off by a change or driving to a better railhead won't be worth worrying over.
 
J

JW4

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railphotoghw said:
(very few?) commuters taking the full journey between Shrewsbury and Euston than the current morning Avanti direct service which arrives into London just before 10am? As for the point on families, how many are realistically using that direct service? Very few I would imagine, particularly on weekdays.
Click to expand...
For context
According to the Passenger flows at Shrewsbury, in 2018/19 & 2019-20, the most popular destination/origin was Birmingham New Street at 156-160k. London Euston was 75-76k.

MrJeeves said:
Quite frankly, these services don't seem to make much sense to me...

One train to and from London per day, which has to make the trip to and from Birmingham/Wolverhampton before/after the service runs each day?

I do wonder whether Avanti will run a different service instead or just let the unit leave the depot later in the day instead.
Click to expand...
The 18:16 (9J38) from Euston to Shrewsbury often travels down the Cross-City North from Central Rivers on its way to Euston and requires a reversal at New Street or a trip down the Aston-Stechford line.

The additional 15:21 Birmingham to Euston and 16:21 Birmingham to Euston are pathed as 80x so could use the 221.

The 18:16 (9G38) is now from Euston to Wolverhampton, pathed as 80x.
 
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railphotoghw

railphotoghw

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Kite159 said:
Yes 2tph... a mere 5 minutes apart from each other. More benefit is the times of WMT changing to give Shrewsbury - Birmingham a more even 2tph with the TfW service, rather than the current situation with the WMT following the TfW meaning Shrewsbury - Birmingham was effectively 1tph.
Click to expand...
Yes, however they do arrive into Birmingham around 25 minutes apart. If passengers board the semi fast service from Shrewsbury and change at New Street, they’ll have a 20 minute connection time onto a service to Euston, which would only be 5 minutes behind the service from Shrewsbury, meaning they can change platforms and board almost instantly.

In the opposite direction, the WMT services are leaving New Street half an hour apart of each other.
 
Kite159

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railphotoghw said:
Yes, however they do arrive into Birmingham around 25 minutes apart. If passengers board the semi fast service from Shrewsbury and change at New Street, they’ll have a 20 minute connection time onto a service to Euston, which would only be 5 minutes behind the service from Shrewsbury, meaning they can change platforms and board almost instantly.

In the opposite direction, the WMT services are leaving New Street half an hour apart of each other.
Click to expand...
However due to the calling patterns the 2nd service is only 5 minutes later into Shrewsbury as it's a semi-fast and goes direct so passengers will decide to have the extra time in Birmingham to catch the later service for a short time penalty.

Hardly anybody wanting Wolverhampton or Birmingham will be catching the stopper when the semi-fast is available, same happens elsewhere on the network with stoppers following a fast service, unless WMT start selling dirt cheap advances for the stoppers
 
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JW4

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The timings for the 18:16 remain the same, just with the train terminating at Wolverhampton.
Currently it’s
BHM arr 19:48 dep 19:56 (next connection to Telford, Wellington, Shrewsbury 20:04 WMR)
WVH arr 20:13 dep 20:15 (next connection to TFC, WLN, SHR 20:23 WMR)
Telford arr 20:31
Wellington arr 20:40
Shrewsbury arr 21:02

But there are no WMR services from Birmingham to Shrewsbury from 18:52 to 20:52 from June 2024 according to RTT?
 
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Bald Rick

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Sly Old Fox said:
Just another way for the railway to make the experience slightly worse for its passengers.
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Or better for the majority, depending on your viewpoint.

No point sending a unit near empty to Shrewsbury twice a day when it can be better deployed on another service that eases overcrowding.
 
dk1

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Only used it once from Shrewsbury when it ran lunchtimes & the train manager apologised several times for the overcrowding & blamed it on the Aberystwyth connection that shouldn’t have been made & that it was all their fault. So funny.
 
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JW4

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Left is current timetable Birmingham to Shrewsbury
Right is June 2024 in RTT Birmingham to Shrewsbury (Avanti gone but also 20:04 WMR), why’s the 20:04 (2J40) gone, that’s what‘s supposed to be the connection from the 18:16 Avanti from Euston.
That leaves the 20:22 TFW as the connecting train from New Street (and the same train is the 20:41 connection from Wolverhampton)
 

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