Mark Harper announces in Llandudno North Wales electrification

Snow1964 · 23 Feb 2024

Per Independent

Seems Mark Harper is in North Wales and just told a group about 126 miles of electrification
Crewe; Warrington, Wrexham to Holyhead.

Mr Harper met local MPs, councillors and business leaders in Llandudno, North Wales, on Friday to discuss how the project will benefit the region.

The Cabinet minister told the PA news agency: “It’s unprecedented investment in this part of the world.”

Dont know how accurate it is, or if it is vague aspiration

Billion-pound rail plan for North Wales is ‘unprecedented’, says minister

The Government plans to provide £1 billion to fund a major upgrade of the North Wales Main Line.

www.independent.co.uk

RailUK Forums

urbophile · 23 Feb 2024

Well in view of the fact that the Tories will almost certainly not be in charge when plans are drawn up, it looks more like a plot to trap the Labour Party. They will be hamstrung by being committed to this expenditure, but they won't dare to back track (or at least, that's what they must be thinking).

WAO · 23 Feb 2024

Wonderful what the proximity of a general election does to a government not just trailing but collapsing in the polls.

Based on traffic, one would have thought that Cross Country and the suburban routes around the provincial cities would have better cases.

However, spending on a depressed, low income area should be a good thing.

What precisely has the DfT learned from the GW Electrification over-run?

WAO

Snow1964 · 23 Feb 2024

WAO said:
What precisely has the DfT learned from the GW Electrification over-run?

They did give Furrer and Frey (the Swiss electrification company) £1m earlier this week to develop cost savings on contact wire inclines to pass under bridges at South Wales rail test site

£1m innovation projects to lower cost of rail electrification | RailBusinessDaily

The UK government has awarded Furrer+Frey GB, the British arm of the Swiss railway engineering company, £1million to build prototypes as part of the The UK government has awarded Furrer+Frey GB, the British arm of the Swiss railway engineering company, £1million to build prototypes as part of...

news.railbusinessdaily.com

HSTEd · 23 Feb 2024

WAO said:
What precisely has the DfT learned from the GW Electrification over-run?

More or less, don't order large amounts of electrification.

I expect this is a cabinet in a panic to try and save a few marginal seats.

Snow1964 · 23 Feb 2024

Might be worth linking the North Wales aspiration diagram from summer 2020 for reference, (although treat it as aspirations, not what will happen)

https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2020-07/north-wales-main-line-rail-network-map.pdf

I am not sure what the reference to Wrexham is about, maybe someone more local can explain how that bit makes sense unless service patterns are due to change.

Djgr · 23 Feb 2024

urbophile said:
Well in view of the fact that the Tories will almost certainly not be in charge when plans are drawn up, it looks more like a plot to trap the Labour Party. They will be hamstrung by being committed to this expenditure, but they won't dare to back track (or at least, that's what they must be thinking).

Didn't Bojo say that he was going to pretty much reverse the Beeching cuts? How's that going?

It is laughable that anyone takes anything from this "government" seriously.

snowball · 23 Feb 2024

Surely this is just a repeat of the north Wales bit of what was announced when the PM cancelled HS2 phase 2.

Snow1964 · 23 Feb 2024

snowball said:
Surely this is just a repeat of the north Wales bit of what was announced when the PM cancelled HS2 phase 2.

That was my first thought, but that was more a general list of ideas for scattering funds around.

If it was just on back burner you don't organise a meeting half way along the line, with MPs and business leaders, and Press etc and re-announce it with more detail.

Xenophon PCDGS · 23 Feb 2024

urbophile said:
Well in view of the fact that the Tories will almost certainly not be in charge when plans are drawn up, it looks more like a plot to trap the Labour Party. They will be hamstrung by being committed to this expenditure, but they won't dare to back track (or at least, that's what they must be thinking).

With Wrexham being mentioned, will TfW have had prior notification of the said matter?

JonathanH · 23 Feb 2024

HSTEd said:
I expect this is a cabinet in a panic to try and save a few marginal seats.

Seats with Conservative majorities in 2019 of 10,000 or more are the ones that might be considered 'marginal seats', not those where the majority is a few hundred or low thousands. No party is going to win votes with the announcement of electrification.

As someone points out above, announcements now are all about trapping the next government into having to say there is no money and axing plans after the election. Then the finger can be pointed at that government breaking promises. The Conservatives will be fairly likely to be wiped out in Wales.

The exile · 23 Feb 2024

JonathanH said:
As someone points out above, announcements now are all about trapping the next government into having to say there is no money and axing plans after the election. Then the finger can be pointed at that government breaking promises. The Conservatives will be fairly likely to be wiped out in Wales.

It’s a publicity “win win”. You steal the opposition’s thunder if it was something they might have promised - and, as already stated, make the next government look bad if/when they cancel it. Not to be recommended if there’s the slightest chance that the next government might be you! (Which I suppose speaks volumes). How long before “final” Portishead green light?!

Tremzinho · 23 Feb 2024

urbophile said:
Well in view of the fact that the Tories will almost certainly not be in charge when plans are drawn up, it looks more like a plot to trap the Labour Party. They will be hamstrung by being committed to this expenditure, but they won't dare to back track (or at least, that's what they must be thinking).

To be fair, that’s exactly what Labour were doing when they gave the go ahead for HS2 before the 2010 election.

I’m no fan of the Tories, and this lot are particularly bad, but Labour have an appalling track record on electrification. I’m inclined to give a pass to anything that holds the next government’s feet to the fire on this.

YorkRailFan · 23 Feb 2024

Hasn't this been announced before?

urbophile · 23 Feb 2024

Tremzinho said:
To be fair, that’s exactly what Labour were doing when they gave the go ahead for HS2 before the 2010 election.

I’m no fan of the Tories, and this lot are particularly bad, but Labour have an appalling track record on electrification. I’m inclined to give a pass to anything that holds the next government’s feet to the fire on this.

Labour have an appalling track record on many things. Especially, literally, tracks. Sadly.

Bob Price · 23 Feb 2024

Xenophon PCDGS said:
With Wrexham being mentioned, will TfW have had prior notification of the said matter?

TfW didn't know anything. Nor did Network Rail, the Welsh Government, DfT or any of the industry bodies in Wales. This is simply an example of Tory policy written in a conference hotel room at 3am. It was so they could bash Welsh Labour. The whole scheme is a joke.

yorksrob · 23 Feb 2024

Djgr said:
Didn't Bojo say that he was going to pretty much reverse the Beeching cuts? How's that going?

It is laughable that anyone takes anything from this "government" seriously.

Funnily enough, not badly, compared to the previous thirty years.

But yes, no one's taking the current version of this Government seriously on railway matters

30907 · 23 Feb 2024

ISTR this has been announced before - and of course it will be based on prices from N years ago

Bob Price · 23 Feb 2024

Djgr said:
Didn't Bojo say that he was going to pretty much reverse the Beeching cuts? How's that going?

It is laughable that anyone takes anything from this "government" seriously.

I was listening to the excellent Green Signals podcast today. They asked the question how much has actually been achieved? The answer is nothing.

Nottingham59 · 24 Feb 2024

WAO said:
What precisely has the DfT learned from the GW Electrification over-run?

I don't think they've learned anything at all. Certainly they've not published anywhere or articulated anything that might suggest they have. The latest tender documentation for MML electrification states an aspiration to reduce costs from around £3.5M per stkm, to around half that. But without making any suggestions about how that might be achieved.

8A Rail · 24 Feb 2024

Well we all know how HS2 and other related projects got on don't we! Enough said!

Trackman · 24 Feb 2024

This from the Independent link at the top of the post:

This will be funded by money saved from cancelling the plan to extend HS2 north of Birmingham, according to the Department for Transport.

People have been jumping on the bandwagon about this. Let's see if they get the funding. Not happening.

Llanigraham · 24 Feb 2024

Snow1964 said:
That was my first thought, but that was more a general list of ideas for scattering funds around.

If it was just on back burner you don't organise a meeting half way along the line, with MPs and business leaders, and Press etc and re-announce it with more detail.

Funny how the meeting was arranged whilst the Welsh Tory Party conference was being held in Llandudno.
And I understand that AGAIN the Welsh Government have not been consulted!

Snow1964 · 25 Feb 2024

Trackman said:
This from the Independent link at the top of the post:

People have been jumping on the bandwagon about this. Let's see if they get the funding. Not happening.

I will wait until after the 6th March budget, but it could be one of number of elephant traps for new Government. Raise expectations of lots of locals for their nearest scheme going ahead, but not provide enough funds for all of them, so which ones does incoming Government have to cancel with all the negative consequences.

YorkRailFan · 25 Feb 2024

Trackman said:
This from the Independent link at the top of the post:

People have been jumping on the bandwagon about this. Let's see if they get the funding. Not happening.

What funding? The funding "saved" from HS2 doesn't exist.

Bob Price · 25 Feb 2024

Exactly. The money for HS2 was borrowed year on year by the DfT for the project. Cancelling it.saved nothing. They have committed to borrow a wadge of cash to electrify a line without any plan, project or business case. This is entirely political and I would shocked if a single wire is put up.

778 · 25 Feb 2024

WAO said:
Based on traffic, one would have thought that Cross Country and the suburban routes around the provincial cities would have better cases.

Electrifying the Chiltern & Snow Hill lines should be a bigger priority than the North Wales Coast line.

ChrisC · 25 Feb 2024

778 said:
Electrifying the Chiltern & Snow Hill lines should be a bigger priority than the North Wales Coast line.

Completing any electrification projects already started, such as the MML through to Nottingham and Sheffield, should be a bigger priority than starting large new electrification projects.

I'm here now · 25 Feb 2024

ChrisC said:
Completing any electrification projects already started, such as the MML through to Nottingham and Sheffield, should be a bigger priority than starting large new electrification projects.

I think that the midland main line and transpennine routes should not be the only routes to be focused on electrification. This project could, in theory, bring jobs to the region. There should really be a rolling electrification program and this could be the start of it, even if it is just a political decoy done by the Tories.

snowball · 25 Feb 2024

ChrisC said:
Completing any electrification projects already started, such as the MML through to Nottingham and Sheffield, should be a bigger priority than starting large new electrification projects.

I don't think you need to worry about new electrification projects overtaking MML or TRU! If new projects happen, they will be several years away. Partly because they have to be designed and preparatory work has to be done, and partly because the spend on HS2 which they would replace was years away.

Mark Harper announces in Llandudno North Wales electrification

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