Arbroath - Platform 3

Red Onion · 7 Mar 2024

This is maybe a daft question but does anybody know why the local Arbroath to Dundee stoppers don’t utilise the third platform there? I appreciate that the south facing point from the platform and south crossover would need reinstating (and possibly track rehabilitation following vegetation clearance) but it seems that it would be an easy job to do.

The only reason I ask is whilst waiting for an Aberdeen train today, the stopper arrived on platform 2 but could not move off to access the turn back siding to the north due to a late running southbound train. This ultimately caused the Aberdeen service, which was running early prior to Arbroath, to accumulate almost 15 minutes of delay. Had platform 3 been in use, this most likely would have been avoided. It just got me thinking as to why it’s never been used since the 90s, if I’m right in thinking.

Just a curious question if anyone knows the answer

RailUK Forums

Carntyne · 7 Mar 2024

Sounds like you've answered your own question there, if the S&C needs reinstated...

Railsigns · 7 Mar 2024

It's proposed for reinstatement when the line is resignalled in the next few years in preparation for electrification.

The Puddock · 7 Mar 2024

It was considered around ten years ago as part of a plan to move the Royal Scotsman overnight stabling location from Dundee but knocked back because it was going to cost over a million quid (in 2013 prices!) and the business case didn’t stack up.

Reinstatement is, however, part of the scope for the Aberdeen - Central Belt improvement project.

Red Onion · 7 Mar 2024

That’s interesting to know, thank you for that!

northscots · 7 Mar 2024

On the cards for the future, along with platform 3 at Montrose and platforms 1, 2 and 8 at Aberdeen also reinstated.

najaB · 8 Mar 2024

Seems like it would be exceedingly useful - both for turning the stoppers in platform rather than the siding, and also as a place to loop any freight trains as we try to move lorries off the road.

Red Onion · 8 Mar 2024

It certainly would make sense for reasons like that.

Out of interest, does anyone have any links to the documents for the signal, platform etc enhancements mentioned in the posts above?

CEN60 · 8 Mar 2024

najaB said:
Seems like it would be exceedingly useful - both for turning the stoppers in platform rather than the siding, and also as a place to loop any freight trains as we try to move lorries off the road.

Not sure about looping freight - you might only get around 250m usable length (from the layout I saw a while back)

Davester50 · 8 Mar 2024

Sounds similar to the recent improvements at Dunblane with the points at the south, rather than a complicated shunt to the north.

The Puddock · 8 Mar 2024

Red Onion said:
Out of interest, does anyone have any links to the documents for the signal, platform etc enhancements mentioned in the posts above?

They’re not in the public domain, sorry.

Red Onion · 8 Mar 2024

The Puddock said:
They’re not in the public domain, sorry.

Not a problem, explains why I haven’t been able to find them. Thanks for letting me know

najaB · 8 Mar 2024

CEN60 said:
Not sure about looping freight - you might only get around 250m usable length (from the layout I saw a while back)

Maybe. But the few freights that I see up this way tend to be fairly short anyway.

Red Onion · 8 Mar 2024

najaB said:
Maybe. But the few freights that I see up this way tend to be fairly short anyway.

I‘m not sure what freight really comes up this way now, off the top of my head there’s the containers to Craiginches, clay slurry from Waterloo Quay and the odd cement. I don’t think there’s anything else but they are all quite short consists.

PG · 8 Mar 2024

northscots said:
On the cards for the future, along with platform 3 at Montrose and platforms 1, 2 and 8 at Aberdeen also reinstated.

I assume that p3 at Montrose was on the town side of the existing platforms, inbetween the southbound platform and the mag-lime siding?

I know where 1 & 2 were at Aberdeen, but where was p8?

chuff chuff · 8 Mar 2024

No containers for a while now,there is talk of freight loops at Magdalen Gardens at Dundee.

Red Onion · 8 Mar 2024

PG said:
I assume that p3 at Montrose was on the town side of the existing platforms, inbetween the southbound platform and the mag-lime siding?

I know where 1 & 2 were at Aberdeen, but where was p8?

Platform 8 is the other side of the island where 7 is, the track there has been used to stable LNER sets in the past.

chuff chuff said:
No containers for a while now,there is talk of freight loops at Magdalen Gardens at Dundee.

Oh, I didn’t know the containers had stopped!

PG · 8 Mar 2024

Red Onion said:
Platform 8 is the other side of the island where 7 is, the track there has been used to stable LNER sets in the past.

Thanks, makes sense now, I think I've seen that track used occasionally, didn't realise it had once been a platform. Was p8 only accessible from the South?

Red Onion · 8 Mar 2024

PG said:
Thanks, makes sense now, I think I've seen that track used occasionally, didn't realise it had once been a platform. Was p8 only accessible from the South?

It’s a through platform and could be accessed from the north, albeit the connection was severed a long time ago. It could easily be reconnected if needed.

The Puddock · 8 Mar 2024

PG said:
I assume that p3 at Montrose was on the town side of the existing platforms, inbetween the southbound platform and the mag-lime siding?

It will be a north facing dock for trains to/from Aberdeen, located where the Network Rail p-way compound is currently.

Red Onion said:
It’s a through platform and could be accessed from the north, albeit the connection was severed a long time ago. It could easily be reconnected if needed.

It might not be particularly ‘easy‘ because the structure clearances are very tight, especially for electrification, since the Trinity Centre was built on top. They’re still working through whether or not it’ll be viable without major structural work. In any case apparently there isn’t enough in the budget to upgrade platforms 1 and 2 to passenger standards (which also requires a change to the track layout) and reinstate platform 8 so it’ll be either/or.

InOban · 8 Mar 2024

CEN60 said:
Not sure about looping freight - you might only get around 250m usable length (from the layout I saw a while back)

Looking on Google maps it looks as if the formation would accommodate a significantly longer loop.

chuff chuff · 8 Mar 2024

The Puddock said:
It will be a north facing dock for trains to/from Aberdeen, located where the Network Rail p-way compound is currently.

Would the work at Arbroath and Montrose be reliant on the reintroduction of the full Dundee to Arbroath and Inverurie to Montrose services?

CEN60 · 9 Mar 2024

InOban said:
Looking on Google maps it looks as if the formation would accommodate a significantly longer loop.

I measured it off the proposed CAD feasibility file! Also measuring on Google does not take into account turnout and crossover lengths and the signalling needs that further reduce lengths. As I say I measured it accurately and made a signalling allowance based on my 35 years of railway design knowledge.

najaB · 9 Mar 2024

CEN60 said:
I measured it off the proposed CAD feasibility file! Also measuring on Google does not take into account turnout and crossover lengths and the signalling needs that further reduce lengths. As I say I measured it accurately and made a signalling allowance based on my 35 years of railway design knowledge.

Ignore this. Was asking a nonsense question about the freight sitting in 1/2 while the passenger train used 3 to overtake.

Arbroath - Platform 3

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