D6130
Established Member
What was it doing all the way over there? I would have thought it would go straight up the A77/A71/M77 from Girvan to Glasgow.
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Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023
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Strathclyder
Established Member
Perhaps a decision on the part of the lorry driver for any number of reasons. Honestly can't think why else he would venture all the way over to the M74. Main thing is that 503 is back at home base now.
Rick1984
Member
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The A77 is very twisty and turning, especially just South of Girvan. I don't think trying to get a low-loader with half a train on it along there would be much fun!
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MadMac
Member
There was some mention of a police escort to Annan from Stranraer which would explain the M74 route.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
And as such the ultimate routing could well be decided by a unit specifically tasked with such things in police Scotland in association with the local constabulary in this case D and G at least as far as the trunk route part of the journey was concerned. I don't think it faces such restrictions on the m74 and associated roads to Glasgow and then presumably strathglide will have escorted it on the last mile also to the depot
D6130
Established Member
There is no such thing as a 'local constabulary' in Scotland any more. Everything comes under the realm of Police Scotland.
Strathclyder
Established Member
Makes sense, I did suspect this had something to do with the M74 being used, but as noted in my initial post on this, my mind was elsewhere.
Cheers gents, that certainly explains it.
D6130
Established Member
Surely, if the vehicles were being taken from Girvan to Corkerhill, they wouldn't have to traverse the winding sections of the A77 South of Girvan?
Rick1984
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Oh yeah. For some reason in my head had it going from Stranraer.Surely, if the vehicles were being taken from Girvan to Corkerhill, they wouldn't have to traverse the winding sections of the A77 South of Girvan?
MadMac
Member
Picture over on the Scot-Rail forum shows significant progress on both scaffolding removal and demolition over the past couple of weeks.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
I'm guessing that perhaps the areas likely to collapse if anything majorly intrusive was done have been removed or made safe so they can now undertake work at slightly greater pace? Looking forward to having a rail service properly reinstated although appreciate this will now take some time for various logistical reasons
Ayrshire Roy
Member
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- 8 Feb 2019
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- 71
When I drove past the other day it looked like only the northern wall of the southern section was left with hardly any scaffolding.
MadMac
Member
Latest word over on the Scot-Rail forum is that the replacement bus companies have been told to plan for at least a further two, and potentially three, months of work. There’s also this article from the Ayr Advertiser which refers to structural damage to the north section of the building. Reading between the lines, this is now headed towards a complete demolition.
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Strathclyder
Established Member
Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest, sad as I am to say it, if it turns out a wholesale demolition is what's needed.
MadMac
Member
NR is now officially stating that they do not expect a “normal“ service until Sunday June 2nd.
Strathclyder
Established Member
Seems realistic; about the same length of time Finnieston-Rutherglen was shut for repairs after the catastrophic flooding in December 1994 (8-10 months). Wouldn't be surprised if that date also slips back a bit further.
I wonder why this thread has been moved to General Discussion, an area I never normally look at, and which I thought was for non-rail-related topics? It seems to obviously belong in Stations and Infrastructure and used to be there. I wondered why I could no longer find it and used the search tool.
Perhaps I'm not the only one who never normally looks in GD. A parallel discussion of the hotel demolition, with photographs, has started in another thread:
Perhaps I'm not the only one who never normally looks in GD. A parallel discussion of the hotel demolition, with photographs, has started in another thread:
Glasgow-Ayr services
How come direct services between Glasgow and Ayr no longer exist? Why do you need a shuttle instead between the last three stops instead of a direct service?
www.railforums.co.uk
Gostav
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Over the years, there is one situation that may partially explain why such buildings end up being destroyed due to long-term neglect.
There are some dodgy intermediaries who specialize in selling similar old buildings to overseas buyers, who are the newly affluent class and have less overseas investment experience. The intermediaries packaged these buildings with limited potential into high-value investment assets similar such "majestic Victorian buildings in prime locations". These intermediaries use asymmetric information to persuade such overseas investors to buy these historic buildings, often exaggerating development potential and underestimating risks. Investors may be late to realize that own an old buildings like the Ayr Hotel and reopen for business may requires a large amount of capital investment to rectify the damage and with cumbersome legal paperwork (e.g., do the building's original massive wooden structures comply with modern fire regulations?).
When these investors finally realized that owning and maintaining such an old building was a bottomless pit, they just gave up.
Just do a quick search for "UK real estate investment" in Japanese, and here's what a investment company's website says about investing in old buildings in UK: 建物の寿命は永遠と考えられているので、マンションが古くなることによる値下がりはおきません。むしろ100年以上のものはピリオッドプロパティ（歴史建築）といわれ、値段が上がります。(The lifespan of a building is considered to be eternal, so the price of an apartment will not drop as it gets older. In fact, buildings that are more than 100 years old are called period properties (historical buildings), and their prices will go up.) There is no warnings about the risks of own old building.
Apparently now I have reason to be skeptical of this overseas investment company.
There are some dodgy intermediaries who specialize in selling similar old buildings to overseas buyers, who are the newly affluent class and have less overseas investment experience. The intermediaries packaged these buildings with limited potential into high-value investment assets similar such "majestic Victorian buildings in prime locations". These intermediaries use asymmetric information to persuade such overseas investors to buy these historic buildings, often exaggerating development potential and underestimating risks. Investors may be late to realize that own an old buildings like the Ayr Hotel and reopen for business may requires a large amount of capital investment to rectify the damage and with cumbersome legal paperwork (e.g., do the building's original massive wooden structures comply with modern fire regulations?).
When these investors finally realized that owning and maintaining such an old building was a bottomless pit, they just gave up.
Just do a quick search for "UK real estate investment" in Japanese, and here's what a investment company's website says about investing in old buildings in UK: 建物の寿命は永遠と考えられているので、マンションが古くなることによる値下がりはおきません。むしろ100年以上のものはピリオッドプロパティ（歴史建築）といわれ、値段が上がります。(The lifespan of a building is considered to be eternal, so the price of an apartment will not drop as it gets older. In fact, buildings that are more than 100 years old are called period properties (historical buildings), and their prices will go up.) There is no warnings about the risks of own old building.
Apparently now I have reason to be skeptical of this overseas investment company.
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Strathclyder
Established Member
^^ That does make a bit of sense considering that out of the 14 years of Eng Huat Ung's ownership - 2010 onwards - it was only open until 2013 and both companies directly overseeing it have been dissolved (see @Baxenden Bank's post below concerning their status on Companies House). Although, it should've been patently obvious that the older the building, the higher the upkeep costs were going to be, even if the hotel was doing a booming trade when he took it over. A bad/shortsighted investment on his part, legal limitations, financial constraints and overall local/national government failures on our side, combining to bite everyone on the backside, most of all the taxpayer.
Getting back to the demolition & site rehabilitation side of things, apart from the fact he's in Malaysia and has been mostly unreachable for years, I don't think he gives two flying monkeys about the building being demolished (if anything, he considers the fire back in September one of convenience). The land it formely sat on may be a different story though, which is one of the hurdles that any redevelopment plans will infuriatingly have to overcome.
Getting back to the demolition & site rehabilitation side of things, apart from the fact he's in Malaysia and has been mostly unreachable for years, I don't think he gives two flying monkeys about the building being demolished (if anything, he considers the fire back in September one of convenience). The land it formely sat on may be a different story though, which is one of the hurdles that any redevelopment plans will infuriatingly have to overcome.
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Buzby
Member
Weren’t the Council actually in consultations with the owner, and long before the first fire. I recall the Ayrshire Post commented that it was only when (after the first fire) that the Council added an open-ended commitment for the scaffolding/wrapping as part of the burdens to be imposed on a replacement owner that it all fell apart and communications were lost.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Article on the BBC News website today:
There are calls for a train service between Stranraer and 'just south of Ayr' however the difficulties of there being no platform at Ayr, and no maintenance depot, have not been considered!
The people left forgotten after the Ayr Station Hotel fire
Stranraer rail users fear for the future of their service after a fire in Ayr closed the line for six months.
www.bbc.co.uk
There are calls for a train service between Stranraer and 'just south of Ayr' however the difficulties of there being no platform at Ayr, and no maintenance depot, have not been considered!
Ayrshire Roy
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- 8 Feb 2019
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- 71
I drove past this morning and the full south end of the building is gone.
Just part of the tower and the north end left.
Just part of the tower and the north end left.
Buzby
Member
The council has published a Q&A style response on their website that makes interesting reading:
South Ayrshire Council - Station Fire
South Ayrshire Council - Station Fire
More of the building is to be demolished.
www.ayradvertiser.com
Remaining hotel tower and northern section to be demolished
Major Station Hotel update as council says much more demolition work is needed
The remainder of the tower and half of the northern section of the building at Ayr Railway Station is set to be taken down
MadMac
Member
Has anyone defined “half of the northern section“ yet?
D6130
Established Member
Presumably we're talking about the Southern half of the Northern Section.
If the south wing has gone, and now the tower and part of the north wing are to be demolished too, is there anything that's worth keeping at all? I hate to see historic buildings demolished, but if there's nothing left of any value, wouldn't it be better to just pull the whole lot down and start with a clean sheet of paper, instead of having to incorporate the remains into any new development?
D6130
Established Member
Agreed.