Glasgow-Ayr services

[Joseph T]

How come direct services between Glasgow and Ayr no longer exist? Why do you need a shuttle instead between the last three stops instead of a direct service?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

How come direct services between Glasgow and Ayr no longer exist? Why do you need a shuttle instead between the last three stops instead of a direct service?

Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023

A shame. The station already looks like a construction site, now it'll look even worse. https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/1662851642599809025 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/station-hotel-ayr-fire-appliances-30098041 A fire has broken out at the abandoned Station Hotel in Ayr...

www.railforums.co.uk

All explained here

 

[hexagon789]

How come direct services between Glasgow and Ayr no longer exist? Why do you need a shuttle instead between the last three stops instead of a direct service?

Because of the state of the station hotel and subsequent fires, rendering much of the station unusable:

Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023

A shame. The station already looks like a construction site, now it'll look even worse. https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/1662851642599809025 https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/station-hotel-ayr-fire-appliances-30098041 A fire has broken out at the abandoned Station Hotel in Ayr...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bill57p9]

To summarise:

• Station Hotel was set alight in September, closing the station
• Station Hotel was already structurally unsound. The building is being slowly demolished, however most of the station currently remains inaccessible
• In November (?) ScotRail reopened just enough for 2 cars on the north end of platform 4
• OHLE remains isolated, so the drill is for a 156 shuttle between Prestwick Town and Ayr, connecting with the electric service to/from Glasgow
• The date for restoration of normal services keeps slipping

I’ll take some photos next time I am in town and post them

 

[SC318250]

Was mentioned I think on Scot-rail site that bus contracts have been extended to end of May/early June

 

[snookertam]

It won’t reopen until July at the earliest now.

 

[Bill57p9]

Photo taken from the road bridge on Wednesday looking North showing the current state of the station. The red buffers at the end of the short open stretch of platform 4 can be seen top right.

 

[Taunton]

However can it take so goddam long to demolish that hotel? I have had buildings very much of that bulk and age, and with comparable closely adjacent premises, knocked down by competent contractors in a couple of days, and that was without so much sophisticated heavy plant that we see here.

 

[InOban]

They're not meant to be demolish the whole building which is listed I think. Unfortunately as they work forward they find more and more structural issues and they are having to carefully dismantle more of it.

 

[snowball]

Until recently, discussion of the Ayr station hotel fire and demolition had its own thread in "Infrastructure and Stations", but that thresd has been moved for some reason to General Discussion, which I thought was for non-railway topics:

Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023

Was going to mention that I had passed one vehicle of 503 on the back of a flatbed as it was parked in a layby on the M74 south of Beattock yesterday afternoon while headed home after collecting our new puppy. Once I recognized it (took me a second or two!), I immediately figured it had...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[MadMac]

However can it take so goddam long to demolish that hotel? I have had buildings very much of that bulk and age, and with comparable closely adjacent premises, knocked down by competent contractors in a couple of days, and that was without so much sophisticated heavy plant that we see here.

The building was surrounded by scaffolding in an effort to contain any bits that might fall off. Two fires last year not only damaged the building but also heated the scaffolding up possibly resulting in it having to be cut up rather than dismantled to facilitate demolition. There's also the issue of the condition building itself which means that any sort of “conventional” demolition could result in an uncontrolled collapse (I believe they’ve already had one).

 

[Taunton]

They're not meant to be demolish the whole building which is listed I think. Unfortunately as they work forward they find more and more structural issues and they are having to carefully dismantle more of it.

That's a demolition job. In the photo above the whole of the 4-storey structure coming towards the photographer, from where the "Caskie" excavator is working, almost forward to the photographer's position, has been demolished and obviously levelled. The grand spire above the high point visible on the left, which stuck up probably another two storeys, has also gone. With fire and water damage, and internal structural failures, there's nothing left that can be realistically saved.

Same as the fire in the Glasgow School of Art (and possibly some of the same protagonists), various architectural groups manage to squander time and money arguing among themselves, each wanting prominence for their view (and themselves) while the outcome is obvious. Meanwhile the contractors are enjoying the monthly billing of what's going on. Whoever is paying for all this (and the loss on the railway)?

 

[MadMac]

That's a demolition job. In the photo above the whole of the 4-storey structure coming towards the photographer, from where the "Caskie" excavator is working, almost forward to the photographer's position, has been demolished and obviously levelled. The grand spire above the high point visible on the left, which stuck up probably another two storeys, has also gone. With fire and water damage, and internal structural failures, there's nothing left that can be realistically saved.

Same as the fire in the Glasgow School of Art (and possibly some of the same protagonists), various architectural groups manage to squander time and money arguing among themselves, each wanting prominence for their view (and themselves) while the outcome is obvious. Meanwhile the contractors are enjoying the monthly billing of what's going on. Whoever is paying for all this (and the loss on the railway)?

To further complicate matters, it’s owned by an absentee landlord who is believed to be in Singapore and has been unreachable for years. The taxpayer is on the hook for it plus any losses sustained by the scaffolding contractor.

 

[Taunton]

I presume if the unreachable owner in Asia has not made contact for years, they realise their investment has turned into a large loss and are not going to make themselves known now. The local authority has had quite enough time to put into action what they are legally allowed to do in such situations where owners cannot be traced, which is not uncommon.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The local authority has had quite enough time to put into action what they are legally allowed to do in such situations where owners cannot be traced, which is not uncommon.

Scottish law equivalent of compulsory purchase? (With the demolition cost deducted from the sale proceeds?)

 

[MadMac]

Scottish law equivalent of compulsory purchase? (With the demolition cost deducted from the sale proceeds?)

I believe this was touched on somewhere in one of the threads and CPO couldn’t be invoked as there were no plans for other uses for the building or the land it sits on.

 

[Taunton]

It's called Compulsory Purchase in Scotland as well. There are a number of reasonable steps that have to be gone through, sending multiple letters to the last known address, advertising it, authorisation by the relevant Scottish government minister, etc. In cases like this where the land has "negative value", that is it is going to cost the owner more than it is worth, it's not unknown for the owner to go to ground. The local authority does what is needed, takes legal possession, and ultimately sells the land, subtracting their reasonable costs and putting any balance (unlikely here) into a reserve for some further years, just in case the original owner emerges.

A finite purpose is not initially necessary for dealing with a Dangerous Building.

 

[jfollows]

I believe this was touched on somewhere in one of the threads and CPO couldn’t be invoked as there were no plans for other uses for the building or the land it sits on.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-from-august-2018.168953/page-10#post-4693045 for example

 

[MadMac]

Post today on the Facebook group “Scottish Railways (Past & Present)” shows significant progress on demolition of the South wing. Apparently some recovered materials have been used to infill the basement with the remainder being removed from site.

It appears that the efforts to remove the scaffolding are now concentrated on the West side of the North wing. The post also mentioned that this work may go on into September - NR’s current position is unchanged at a resumption of service in early June.

 

[Strathclyder]

Post today on the Facebook group “Scottish Railways (Past & Present)” shows significant progress on demolition of the South wing. Apparently some recovered materials have been used to infill the basement with the remainder being removed from site.

It appears that the efforts to remove the scaffolding are now concentrated on the West side of the North wing. The post also mentioned that this work may go on into September - NR’s current position is unchanged at a resumption of service in early June.

So a few weeks short of a year then. Wish I could say I was surprised, I really do.

Given how long this is likely to take to fully resolve (longer than that Argyle Line closure in 1994-95), anything other than plans for a fully integrated transport hub emerging from this utter shambles ought to be cast aside; anything else would be, to put it as politely as possible, would be taking the p***. This fire really was a microcosm of failed local and national goverment policy, was decades in the making and was a hammer blow Ayr really didn't need. Shudder to think of the socio-ecomonic costs let alone the raw financial ones.

 

[Peter0124]

Will be interesting to find out the estimates of station usage for Ayr during this, compared to before it happened.

 

[LkmtvMetatarsl]

So a few weeks short of a year then. Wish I could say I was surprised, I really do.

Given how long this is likely to take to fully resolve (longer than that Argyle Line closure in 1994-95), anything other than plans for a fully integrated transport hub emerging from this utter shambles ought to be cast aside; anything else would be, to put it as politely as possible, would be taking the p***. This fire really was a microcosm of failed local and national goverment policy, was decades in the making and was a hammer blow Ayr really didn't need. Shudder to think of the socio-ecomonic costs let alone the raw financial ones.

As well as an absent and uncaring landlord.

A very sad situation which I'm not sure the railway can do much about, but maybe demolition is for the best. Hopefully trains can be up and running as soon as the work is finished.

 

[Strathclyder]

Will be interesting to find out the estimates of station usage for Ayr during this, compared to before it happened.

Wouldn't be surprised if it's a drop in usage similar to the one the entire network experienced at the height of COVID, if not worse. The station usage stats will make for interesting reading at the other side of all this. Same applies to Newton-on-Ayr, Girvan, Maybole and Stranraer, though not quite to the same degree.

A very sad situation which I'm not sure the railway can do much about, but maybe demolition is for the best. Hopefully trains can be up and running as soon as the work is finished.

Which to me, is rather barmy considering the hotel's proximity to the platforms (for all intents and purposes, it was part of the station), but we can largely blame that on how the hotel was sold off and passed through various owners up until the current one bought it in 2010. The seeds for this were sown a long time ago.

As @MadMac notes above, it will be some time before the full service is restored, June is the earilest date mentioned, maybe even stretching into September.

 

[snookertam]

I think Ayr to Glasgow Central traffic will be fine. It’s the route south of Ayr I’d be worried about.

 

[SC318250]

With the hotel being demolished at the buffer ends, it will be interesting to see if platform 1 and 2 are eventually extended to take 7 or 8 coaches, to keep Platform 3 and 4 empty removing several shunts

 

[Strathclyder]

I think Ayr to Glasgow Central traffic will be fine. It’s the route south of Ayr I’d be worried about.

Oh, I don't doubt Ayr-Glasgow traffic will gradually recover once full service is eventually restored. What I meant was that the passenger usage stats of the affected stations over the period of the fire and subsequent demolition works that will be interesting to see when they get released in the future. But yeah, the route south of Ayr will take quite a bit longer to recover from this.

With the hotel being demolished at the buffer ends, it will be interesting to see if platform 1 and 2 are eventually extended to take 7 or 8 coaches, to keep Platform 3 and 4 empty removing several shunts

Not that I disagree with this in principle, but if the new transport hub proposal ends up becoming a serious, concrete one (far too early to say with any certainty at this stage obviously), I have no doubts that the main waiting room/ticket office/staff facilites etc would be located on the Burns Square Statue side, which may, I stress, may hamper any hypothetical platform extensions. We'll just have to wait and see what happens either way.

 

[Bill57p9]

I have caught the Ayr to Prestwick shuttle a few times recently. My experience is that loadings are low but not negligible. Loadings on the RRBs appear very quiet.

 

[InOban]

The latest information in a construction newsletter is that further demolition is required with an eta for completion by 17th June.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

The latest information in a construction newsletter is that further demolition is required with an eta for completion by 17th June.

And once demolition is completed and the site is handed back to NR, the work then needs to take place to reinstate the railway infrastructure to then allow route refreshing/learning to take place.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's August before Stranraer sees a passenger train.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I’d imagine it’ll take a while to get things moving back to Stranraer after the line reopens, because by now surely crew competency and knowledge on the route would’ve lapsed?