• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Azuma seating

Abc100

Member
Joined
8 Sep 2017
Messages
36
I was on an LNER azuma this weekend on the Aberdeen to London route and have to say I was shocked at how the already inadequate standard class seating has deteriorated. On my reserved seat, the scrap of foam on the seat base had sunken to being totally flat and there were screw heads sticking up through it. Thankfully I found another seat on the very busy train but even this one was quite worn with the foam pad again almost flat leaving me sitting against hard plastic.

These are trains which cover an almost 7 hour route, and replaced mk3 carriages with soft well padded sprung seats. The seats were inadequate for the route when new and obviously more suited to very short commuter routes. The train was also almost full leaving Aberdeen with standing room only after Dundee So use of the route is high.

Question is - given the very poor state of the already inadequate standard class seating after just 4-4.5 years on the route (which many passengers face 5-6-7 hours on) are LNER planning to renew this or address the issue? According to staff it’s a very common complaint these days. Perhaps also the smaller dual power fleet of azumas are suffering more as they’re utilised on the longer heavy used services too.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

RunRepeat

Member
Joined
13 Jun 2018
Messages
45
I was on an LNER azuma this weekend on the Aberdeen to London route and have to say I was shocked at how the already inadequate standard class seating has deteriorated. On my reserved seat, the scrap of foam on the seat base had sunken to being totally flat and there were screw heads sticking up through it. Thankfully I found another seat on the very busy train but even this one was quite worn with the foam pad again almost flat leaving me sitting against hard plastic.

These are trains which cover an almost 7 hour route, and replaced mk3 carriages with soft well padded sprung seats. The seats were inadequate for the route when new and obviously more suited to very short commuter routes. The train was also almost full leaving Aberdeen with standing room only after Dundee So use of the route is high.

Question is - given the very poor state of the already inadequate standard class seating after just 4-4.5 years on the route (which many passengers face 5-6-7 hours on) are LNER planning to renew this or address the issue? According to staff it’s a very common complaint these days. Perhaps also the smaller dual power fleet of azumas are suffering more as they’re utilised on the longer heavy used services too.
I understand that there may be plans to replace the seating across the fleet. Whether that extends beyond seat bases and material I'm not certain but would presume not. This follows a discussion I had with someone in the seating industry so obviously has some merit but must be treated as speculative.
 

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
7,948
Location
West Riding
I personally wouldn’t book on an Azuma for a long journey like Aberdeen-York/London or the equivalents on the Highland Chieftain. I was recently left with no choice but to do Edinburgh-Doncaster on an Azuma in STD and I actually came away thinking it wasn’t too bad, but I don’t think I’d attempt a longer journey.

The sensible thing to do from a comfort perspective is to use Scotrail North of Edinburgh and consider going down the West Coast route South of Edinburgh.
 

Abc100

Member
Joined
8 Sep 2017
Messages
36
I personally wouldn’t book on an Azuma for a long journey like Aberdeen-York/London or the equivalents on the Highland Chieftain. I was recently left with no choice but to do Edinburgh-Doncaster on an Azuma in STD and I actually came away thinking it wasn’t too bad, but I don’t think I’d attempt a longer journey.

The sensible thing to do from a comfort perspective is to use Scotrail North of Edinburgh and consider going down the West Coast route South of Edinburgh.
The issue is that the direct route with no changes is quite important - both with ticket cost, journey time and reliability - scotrail is renowned for being unreliable with short notice cancellations or substituting a 2 car DMU with little luggage space in place of a 5 car HST short notice. LNER also makes up a proportion of the Aberdeen east coast timetable and large amount of its capacity rather than being additional to a regular scotrail hourly service.

I used to travel Aberdeen to London regularly on the HSTs but like yourself wouldn’t consider this on standard azuma due to the seating, however I have done first class a number of times. While not amazing, the seats are passable there although are also becoming worn rapidly.

Whoever specified the azuma fit out clearly had no idea of the routes being served or passenger requirements for long distance travel!
 

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,470
Location
Exeter
I understand that there may be plans to replace the seating across the fleet. Whether that extends beyond seat bases and material I'm not certain but would presume not. This follows a discussion I had with someone in the seating industry so obviously has some merit but must be treated as speculative.
Big news  if true.
 
Joined
31 Dec 2019
Messages
636
Location
uk
Knowing the industry, this probably means an "upgrade" to Class 700 seats so capacity can increase.
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,452
These are trains which cover an almost 7 hour route, and replaced mk3 carriages with soft well padded sprung seats. The seats were inadequate for the route when new and obviously more suited to very short commuter routes.
It is indeed a commuter seat design. Specced by the DfT to save a few pennies. Hitachi folk were horrified and attempted to have the seats they'd originally specced included by DfT was having none of it.
 

physics34

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
3,704
Keep complaining about the inadequacies about this seating. Eventually something will be done.

Its totally unacceptable that a seat on a national express coach is better
 

Blindtraveler

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2011
Messages
9,680
Location
Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
It is certainly nice to know that Hitachi were scandalized at the seating ordered, but this very much is a case on all DFT specified IET units of reaping what they have sewn and I have no sympathy for them or the incumbent train management companies as all the sympathy is kept saved up for myself and my fellow passengers, I personally go out of my way and sometimes pay more or inconvenience myself significantly to avoid having to use these. The classic gwr problem is becoming apparent on the buy mode units at East coast as well
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
6,673
Location
Northern England
Quite early on, if I recall, GWR had all the seat covering fabric replaced across their IET fleet as what had originally been specified was deemed inadequate.

LNER has needed extra luggage racks installed across the fleet.

Now we are faced with the prospect of the seats - which, if other posts on this forum are to be believed, were apparently specified against the advice of the designers and engineers, despite the awareness that they were not designed for this application - requiring overhaul or replacement after only a few years in service.

Surely this has to cost more than just speccing things properly in the first place?
 

capital12

Member
Joined
20 Aug 2012
Messages
502
I’ve given up using LNER now because it’s just too uncomfortable, and fly instead.

Seat isn’t great on the plane either, but it’s only an hour and a bit vs 6/7 hours on the train!
 

reecestrains

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2023
Messages
167
Location
Leeds, West Yorkshire
Unfortunately I do have to agree with the seats. They are uncomfortable and they do feel like ironing board seats that feel like reinforced concrete.

I know everyone has their own preferences and opinions, so I just thought I share mine.
 

Master29

Established Member
Joined
19 Feb 2015
Messages
1,970
I can remember the "worthy replacement for the HST" so often touted when these entered service. I think those will definitely get a few laughs now. They certainly got a few at the time.
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,452
Unfortunately I do have to agree with the seats. They are uncomfortable and they do feel like ironing board seats that feel like reinforced concrete.

I know everyone has their own preferences and opinions, so I just thought I share mine.
At least the LNER ones don't have a support bar pressing into your thighs like the GWR ones do.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,896
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
At least the LNER ones don't have a support bar pressing into your thighs like the GWR ones do.

They do. Just being newer most of them haven't collapsed enough for it to be really noticeable on most units, but it's definitely there.

The only Sophia that appears not to have it at all is the TfW version. Even the First Class seats on Thameslink, which aren't a Sophia exactly but are a Fainsa product with a very similar base, have it.
 

greyman42

Established Member
Joined
14 Aug 2017
Messages
4,946
Unfortunately I do have to agree with the seats. They are uncomfortable and they do feel like ironing board seats that feel like reinforced concrete.

I know everyone has their own preferences and opinions, so I just thought I share mine.
I'm sure most of us agree with you.
 

irish_rail

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2013
Messages
3,884
Location
Plymouth
Well let's hope if money is found to replace the seats, its across the board (GWR too) and not just LNER. They truly are dire now (where OK at first if a little upright and hard) , but now with the metal bar sticking into your bum/thighs they are completely not fit for purpose.
 

wellhouse

Member
Joined
4 Oct 2009
Messages
544
Location
West Yorkshire
The head cushions are increasingly coming adrift on Azuma First Class seats. Most of them were hanging loose on Coach M on the 1800 from Kings Cross to Edinburgh last Sunday.
 

RunRepeat

Member
Joined
13 Jun 2018
Messages
45
The head cushions are increasingly coming adrift on Azuma First Class seats. Most of them were hanging loose on Coach M on the 1800 from Kings Cross to Edinburgh last Sunday.
Many including myself remove them and stick them up on the overhead rack. They're a waste of time.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,896
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Many including myself remove them and stick them up on the overhead rack. They're a waste of time.

I've not travelled 1st on LNER (Standard is expensive enough) but I suspect I wouldn't like them, they look like they'd press into the back of my neck. The soft ones on GWR seem a better idea.
 

Class 800

Member
Joined
5 Aug 2023
Messages
51
Location
London
The LNER ones are extremely hard and bulky. Not sure why they changed them from the default ones. It looks terrible, too.
Perhaps they just wanted to be able to flash a little bit of leather... as compared to the leather seats on the IC225 and late IC125 sets.
 

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,470
Location
Exeter
Perhaps they just wanted to be able to flash a little bit of leather... as compared to the leather seats on the IC225 and late IC125 sets.
Hull Trains managed to have leather headrests without making a mess of it all.
 

danbarjon

Member
Joined
6 Feb 2022
Messages
131
Location
Gateshead and Liverpool
I've not travelled 1st on LNER (Standard is expensive enough) but I suspect I wouldn't like them, they look like they'd press into the back of my neck. The soft ones on GWR seem a better idea.
I can confirm the LNER ones are very uncomfortable for a long journey I've done 5 hours with them and after a while you wish they hadn't bothered..
 

Class 800

Member
Joined
5 Aug 2023
Messages
51
Location
London
Hull Trains managed to have leather headrests without making a mess of it all.
Well, as you pointed out yourself, even Indian Railways moved away from the Sophia on the 2nd gen Vande Bharat sets… I presume the new seats were more comfortable!
 

reecestrains

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2023
Messages
167
Location
Leeds, West Yorkshire
What I found surprising is seeing an introduction video on the Azuma where there was someone boasting about the seats being very comfortable! They're not.
 
Last edited:

Top