Bradford Interchange Bus Station closed until further notice

TUC · 5 Mar 2024

Grumpy said:
On the opening of the Interchange the PTE calculated that it had added over £1million pa to the costs of running the bus services in Bradford.

Apart from lumbering the new PTE with this vanity project, the council had made sure it spent the minimum necessary on its bus fleet, i.e. no new vehicles which might have been used else where in West Yorkshire. Of all the constituent authorities the Bradford fleet was the most decrepit.

With regard to all the design shortcomings discussed above it should perhaps be noted that the whole thing (i.e. not just the railway platforms) was designed by BR's architects at York. The original (and totally unnecessary) overall roof came about because one of BR's architects had seen something similar on TV whilst watching the 1974 soccer World Cup in Germany.

In what ways did the Interchange add that much to operating costs?

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Rikki Lamb · 5 Mar 2024

Andyh82 said:
It was car park, that served the bingo hall, until the bingo hall closed with COVID

The bus depot had to relocate because Metro wanted to sell half the site off due to it being too big (which they did, to Abbey National as it was) Once half the site was sold off the bus depot wouldn’t have been big enough so they had to move. The underground depot was also dark and dingy and not fit for modern bus operation which was moving more towards the era of outdoor parking with just a modern workshop building. Yorkshire Rider also opened the new Huddersfield depot and Cherry Row in Leeds at around the same time which were a similar layout.

The bingo Hall and car park are in the former bus depot.

The bus depot was closed partly due to the flooding and leaking. It closed in September 1997, quite a while after the half the site was sold to Abbey National.

Metro have consistently neglected the Interchange and instead of investing money in it they have deferred and pushed the can down the road. They had the opportunity to pay off the Interchange debt in 1988 when they Sold Yorkshire Rider to it's management and also had the opportunity to really invest money into it in 1996 when half the site was sold off.

It wasn't until the 2010s that the hoardings covering the entrances to platforms E and F were removed and that half of the concourse refurnished. In fact, the rest of the lower concourse hasn't been touched since 1996.

Yorkshire Rider didn't exist when the depot exist as such when Cherry Row and the new Huddersfield depots were opened, it was Kingfisher and Leeds City Link. Yorkshire Rider pretty much stopped existing in September 1995.

The fact of the matter is the structure holding the concrete platform up was not designed for the new bus station and an office block.

TUC said:
In what ways did the Interchange add that much to operating costs?

Structural maintenance, staffing, cleaning.

It even had its own fleet of road sweeping lorries when it opened for example

Grumpy said:
On the opening of the Interchange the PTE calculated that it had added over £1million pa to the costs of running the bus services in Bradford.

Apart from lumbering the new PTE with this vanity project, the council had made sure it spent the minimum necessary on its bus fleet, i.e. no new vehicles which might have been used else where in West Yorkshire. Of all the constituent authorities the Bradford fleet was the most decrepit.

With regard to all the design shortcomings discussed above it should perhaps be noted that the whole thing (i.e. not just the railway platforms) was designed by BR's architects at York. The original (and totally unnecessary) overall roof came about because one of BR's architects had seen something similar on TV whilst watching the 1974 soccer World Cup in Germany.

Sorry but some of that just isn't true and is completely off the mark and is utter flim flam.

No new buses were purchased after the last batch of Fleetlines because the fleet was modern and nothing needed replacing. Why should the BCT have had to buy new buses so they could be used elsewhere. When WYPTE took over, the oldest buses in service were AEC Regents with Weymann body. The other constituent fleets had much older buses in service so hardly decrepit. In the years 1968 to 1972, all the rear platform buses were withdrawn and replaced with a very modern fleet.

The Interchange was hardly a vanity project, it was the culmination of many years work to provide Bradford with a central station for both buses and trains. Perhaps you should read the Late Stanley King's history and backstop to the Interchange.

TravellingTyke · 6 Mar 2024

Hi Rikki

I think we "know" each other off the Bradford regeneration group on Facebook.

Do you have a link to Stanley King's history of the Interchange? I'd love to read it.

I have also submitted an FoIA request in respect of the current closure as it all seems very cloak and dagger: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/bradford_interchange

I can confirm that the organisation may hold some of the information which
you have requested however, the EIR permit an extension to the time for
compliance for Regulations 5(2), 6(2)(a) and 14(2), from 20 to 40 working
days, if we believe that the request’s complexity and volume would make it
impractical to comply or reach a decision about whether to refuse the
request, within 20 working days.

In the interim, I would point you to a link below, to the Combined
Authority website where you can find further information concerning the
latest information on the Bradford Interchange:

[1]https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/all-news...

We expect that we will be able to provide a full response to you no later
than 29^th of April 2024. Should you have any queries regarding your
request, please feel free to contact us quoting reference EIR-1238.

Kr
tt

Grumpy · 6 Mar 2024

Rikki Lamb said:
I wouldn't call it unnecessary really, it protected the tarmac from the rain, a lesson now learnt and kept passengers dry.

The BR architects designed the bus stands to be too short using the wrong measurements so only 72 rather than 144 were able to be used. In hindsight, far too big.

I would argue that the glass enclosed passenger islands kept the passengers dry, without needing the overall roof. The overall roof certainly gave some protection from rain snow and ice to the buses and road surfaces but other bus stations seem to manage without.

Rikki Lamb said:
Sorry but some of that just isn't true and is completely off the mark and is utter flim flam.

No new buses were purchased after the last batch of Fleetlines because the fleet was modern and nothing needed replacing. Why should the BCT have had to buy new buses so they could be used elsewhere. When WYPTE took over, the oldest buses in service were AEC Regents with Weymann body. The other constituent fleets had much older buses in service so hardly decrepit. In the years 1968 to 1972, all the rear platform buses were withdrawn and replaced with a very modern fleet.

I would concede that "decrepit" was perhaps too strong and would not wish to imply that the fleet was badly maintained or shabby. However nearly half the fleet was still front engined Regent 5's etc. and not capable of one man operation. Hence one of the PTE's first big bus orders, 95 Metropolitan Scanias, had to be diverted to Bradford.

61653 HTAFC · 6 Mar 2024

The idea that Bradford would have had the oldest fleet doesn't quite add up to me either. It was only in 1972 that the city withdrew the trolleybus system, so it would be unlikely that the diesel vehicles ordered to replace those would have been "decrepit" by 1976.

Grumpy · 6 Mar 2024

TUC said:
In what ways did the Interchange add that much to operating costs?

Rerouting the bus operation from the city centre to the Interchange added a lot of extra vehicle mileage which was costly. Whilst the new central workshop was a considerable improvement on the old garages that closed, the latter were better situated for serving the routes and hence this led to an increase in dead mileage.

As mentioned by others above the Interchange building itself cost money to run when compared to simply stopping on the street. Thus for example there was an Interchange manager, a Chief Security Manager with ten security officers, a Services engineer to control the running and maintenance of plant, heating, and lighting. Apart from the afore mentioned power sweepers (and highway road sweeper) there were 14 cleaners.
Other additional costs were for lighting , heating etc-for example the concourse was heated as were the railed off queueing areas. It all adds up. I cant recall if the figure included capital charges for the building.

TravellingTyke · 6 Mar 2024

Grumpy said:
As mentioned by others above the Interchange building itself cost money to run when compared to simply stopping on the street.

There was a bus station before the Interchange, though, at Chester Street. Granted, it was open air and so wouldn't have attracted the same heating and lighting costs, but presumably still had a station manager and other functions.

The staffing may not have been as numerous as at the Interchange, but the Interchange had both bus and rail, and presumably the old Exchange station didn't run on two bob and a conker.

jpaul81 · 16 Mar 2024

A temporary bus station could be set up in Bradford city centre should the work needed to repair Bradford Interchange stretch into 2025

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bradford-west-yorkshire-68579437

A temporary bus station could be set up in Bradford city centre should the work needed to repair Bradford Interchange stretch into 2025.

Bradford Interchange bus station has been closed since early January after a block of concrete from the structure collapsed into an underground car park.

West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) said it was in talks to find potential sites for a temporary option.

Results of a survey on the current site are due in the next few weeks.

If that reveals repairs will continue into 2025, when Bradford is UK City of Culture, then a temporary site would be established, the authority said.

'Best light'
A temporary bus layover is currently in operation at the Jacob's Well car park, and buses begin and end their journeys at temporary stops scattered around the city centre, the Local Democracy Reporting Service (LDRS) said.

Simon Warburton, executive director of transport at WYCA, said: "The Interchange is a significant and unusual structure, we have to be sure that it is safe to run 12 tonne vehicles over it.

"In the coming weeks the survey work that is being done should bring some conclusions as to the scale of the work that will be needed to reinstate the facility.

"At that point we should be able to give members more details with regards to where we go next."

He said there was "a lot of work intended to show Bradford in the best light for the City of Culture year."

Bradford Council leader Susan Hinchcliffe said: "This has been a huge inconvenience and continues to be, particularly with the wet weather and no shelters at many of the temporary stops.

"It is not an ideal situation at all."

noddingdonkey · 22 Mar 2024

The T&A are reporting that it's going to be closed for at least another 3 months for more extensive surveys.

Interchange bus station will remain closed for at least another three months

The bus station in the Bradford Interchange will remain closed for a further three months as more detailed surveys are undertaken to determine the…

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

"Surveyors have recommended that further, more extensive surveys need to be carried out in order to provide a comprehensive understanding of the condition of the Interchange and to inform the future management and operation of the structure.

"This work will progress over the coming weeks, however, given the scale and the nature of the structure, completion of those surveys will be a significant undertaking.

"It is therefore anticipated that the Interchange will need to remain closed for at least a further three months to allow surveys to be completed, following which we will take a view on the future operation of the facility.

"In the meantime, work is also ongoing with Bradford Council officers to consider alternative locations for a temporary bus station.

Andyh82 · 22 Mar 2024

I wonder if they might now think about introducing some facilities for rail passengers

It’s pretty scandalous that in the last 3 months they haven’t even hired some portable toilets, or maybe even boxed in a corridor so customers can access the existing ones

Neptune · 26 Mar 2024

Authority rejects Freedom of Information request over Interchange bus station closure

The Telegraph & Argus has asked for a review to be carried out after West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) said it was "unable to…

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

WYCA will not disclose the info in an FOI request by the T&A (local paper). They say they have the info but won’t disclose it.

What have they got to hide?

It won’t surprise many in the know that the inept leader of Bradford Council Susan Hinchcliffe is also in charge of transport at the WYCA.

TUC · 26 Mar 2024

Grumpy said:
Rerouting the bus operation from the city centre to the Interchange added a lot of extra vehicle mileage which was costly. Whilst the new central workshop was a considerable improvement on the old garages that closed, the latter were better situated for serving the routes and hence this led to an increase in dead mileage.

The amount of extra mileage operators now having in Halifax having to go down Horton St and Windings Road to the bus station rather than just stopping on Market Street suggests that Metro haven't learnt their lesson on this.

Neptune said:
Authority rejects Freedom of Information request over Interchange bus station closure

The Telegraph & Argus has asked for a review to be carried out after West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) said it was "unable to…

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

WYCA will not disclose the info in an FOI request by the T&A (local paper). They say they have the info but won’t disclose it.

What have they got to hide?

It won’t surprise many in the know that the inept leader of Bradford Council Susan Hinchcliffe is also in charge of transport at the WYCA.

I also made a FOI request and received a similar response citing the Environmental Impact Regulations 2004. This seems an attempt to circumvent the FOI regulations and is throughly bad practice by Metro.

J.C. · 26 Mar 2024

TUC said:
The amount of extra mileage operators now having in Halifax having to go down Horton St and Windings Road to the bus station rather than just stopping on Market Street suggests that Metro haven't learnt their lesson on this.

Which will be balanced somewhat by the mileage saved by the buses from the north of Halifax such as the 521/522/523 not having to cross Halifax to Edward Street to terminate.

TUC · 26 Mar 2024

J.C. said:
Which will be balanced somewhat by the mileage saved by the buses from the north of Halifax such as the 521/522/523 not having to cross Halifax to Edward Street to terminate.

Only 'somewhat'. The Horton St/Windings Rod mileage is much greater, as is the inconvenience to the public of a long, meandering extra journey just to get into the town centre.

Andyh82 · 26 Mar 2024

TUC said:
Only 'somewhat'. The Horton St/Windings Rod mileage is much greater, as is the inconvenience to the public of a long, meandering extra journey just to get into the town centre.

This is because the council plan to pedestrianise Market Street so buses like the 501/X1 now drop down to the road below

Also there will be improved bus stops near the railway station in due course that this routing will serve

TUC · 31 Mar 2024

Andyh82 said:
This is because the council plan to pedestrianise Market Street so buses like the 501/X1 now drop down to the road below

Also there will be improved bus stops near the railway station in due course that this routing will serve

That does beg the question why bus stops near the railway station were not installed before these services started?

This thread and others does give the impression in multiple ways that Metro are disorganised and not very good at their job.

Andyh82 · 31 Mar 2024

TUC said:
That does beg the question why bus stops near the railway station were not installed before these services started?

This thread and others does give the impression in multiple ways that Metro are disorganised and not very good at their job.

Because the road layout is going to be remodelled as part of the various projects that are happening in Halifax. It’s also nothing to do with Metro, it’s Calderdale Council.

You are not factoring in that it is quite awkward to enter the bus station from Market Street direction now, as the old entrance is now only the exit, so it’s better to approach from Winding Road

TUC · 31 Mar 2024

Andyh82 said:
Because the road layout is going to be remodelled as part of the various projects that are happening in Halifax. It’s also nothing to do with Metro, it’s Calderdale Council.

You are not factoring in that it is quite awkward to enter the bus station from Market Street direction now, as the old entrance is now only the exit, so it’s better to approach from Winding Road

I am factoring that in, but there is surely a logical sequence here. Either:
a) Build at least temporary stops at the rail station before diverting away from Market Street or:
b) Initially create the mouth of the bus station to be capable of taking right turns from Market Street, even if it needs a degree of redesign for use from the opposite direction after the wider road projects are in place.

The current arrangements feel like the bad old days of passengers having to fit around engineering needs, rather than the other way round.

With regard to Metro, they are part of the West Yorkshire Combined Authority, of which Calderdale council is a member. The very point of a combined authority is to enable joined-up planning, not for road projects and public transport projects to be in separate worlds.

GusB · 31 Mar 2024

Could we keep the discussion focussed on the situation at Bradford Interchange, please? If anyone wishes to talk about the situation in Halifax (or anywhere else), this should done in a separate thread.

Thanks

syorksdeano · 31 Mar 2024

So when the new survey says that the structure needs pulling down, what will happen to the train station section?

Neptune · 31 Mar 2024

syorksdeano said:
So when the new survey says that the structure needs pulling down, what will happen to the train station section?

The council seem to want the railway out of the city centre so maybe they’ll get their wish. The £40m entrance that the near bankrupt council are building on Hall Ings is looking like money well spent doesn’t it, oh hang on a minute….

Fisherman80 · 31 Mar 2024

I've just been onto the Metro website to download a map of the city centre bus stops from the 14th of April when major changes to bus stops take place.
The map appears to only give information about the departure point bus stops like Nelson Street but doesn't show where the buses will stop elsewhere in the city centre.
It's already confusing catching a bus in Bradford at the minute due to the closure of the Interchange but the new bus stop map adds to it.
It's bad enough being an able bodied person but I really do feel sorry for any elderly or disabled people who have to rely on buses in Bradford because things have really got beyond a joke and WYCA are not fit for purpose.

Deerfold · 31 Mar 2024

Fisherman80 said:
I've just been onto the Metro website to download a map of the city centre bus stops from the 14th of April when major changes to bus stops take place.
The map appears to only give information about the departure point bus stops like Nelson Street but doesn't show where the buses will stop elsewhere in the city centre.
It's already confusing catching a bus in Bradford at the minute due to the closure of the Interchange but the new bus stop map adds to it.
It's bad enough being an able bodied person but I really do feel sorry for any elderly or disabled people who have to rely on buses in Bradford because things have really got beyond a joke and WYCA are not fit for purpose.

I've asked them twice on X if there will be information about where bus will stop on the way into Bradford. Both tweets have been ignored.

Andyh82 · 31 Mar 2024

You’ve got Bradford council to blame for this, who are still ploughing ahead with their misguided pedestrianisation scheme even though the Interchange is closed

The vast majority of services seem to be using 3 stops on Nelson Street, 1 stop on Hall Ings and 1 bus stop on Bridge Street when the city centre roads are closed from April 14th which sounds like chaos

The council don’t care as they are focussing on the City of Culture in 2025

Fisherman80 · 1 Apr 2024

Deerfold said:
I've asked them twice on X if there will be information about where bus will stop on the way into Bradford. Both tweets have been ignored.

Metro have ignored my requests also for bus stop information in Bradford and First replied telling me to head over to the Metro site for more information!
I really am coming to the conclusion that those in charge at Metro and Bradford council have never used a bus or haven't used a bus for many years.
The local MPs should be doing more to find out what's happening with the Interchange but they don't appear interested.

Neptune · 1 Apr 2024

Fisherman80 said:
Metro have ignored my requests also for bus stop information in Bradford and First replied telling me to head over to the Metro site for more information!
I really am coming to the conclusion that those in charge at Metro and Bradford council have never used a bus or haven't used a bus for many years.
The local MPs should be doing more to find out what's happening with the Interchange but they don't appear interested.

Metro and Bradford council. Two words, one link. Susan Hinchcliffe.

Say no more.

Deerfold · 1 Apr 2024

Neptune said:
Metro and Bradford council. Two words, one link. Susan Hinchcliffe.

Say no more.

She's not the entire organisation.

Neptune · 1 Apr 2024

Deerfold said:
She's not the entire organisation.

She is chair of transport at WYCA and the leader of Bradford Council.

As far as most people are concerned the buck stops with her.

Bantamzen · 2 Apr 2024

Neptune said:
The council seem to want the railway out of the city centre so maybe they’ll get their wish. The £40m entrance that the near bankrupt council are building on Hall Ings is looking like money well spent doesn’t it, oh hang on a minute….

The council just stuck a pin in the map for NPR, then ran with ever since. I seriously doubt most councillors even know where St James' Market even is (the current site of their "gateway" station")..

syorksdeano · 2 Apr 2024

Bantamzen said:
The council just stuck a pin in the map for NPR, then ran with ever since. I seriously doubt most councillors even know where St James' Market even is (the current site of their "gateway" station")..

I've spoken to some people they ha e lived in Bradford all their life, and they don't know where it is.

I can honestly see the Interchange getting pulled down and it becoming another Broadway fiasco, with a hole in the ground for years.

The council will blame the railway and the railway will blame the council.. But with no avoiding line into Bradford Interchange, it could cause a lot of problems

Bradford Interchange Bus Station closed until further notice

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