LickeyIncliner
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Written Caley, but pronounced Cally i.e. with a short "a" to rhyme with SallyCaley - the historic abbreviation of Caledonian which remains in use to this day.
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How common are dividing trains in the UK?
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Basingstoke and Alton splitters, now that's a blast from the past. Last seen on 13 May 1989 (or at least that's what I thought) but have obviously come back on Sundays.
The same train, 1980s-style (Woking station announcements):
"Please stand clear and keep all doors closed. This train is about to make a detachment. Please stand clear... stand clear until the detachment is made".
Short and to the point.
Cheshire Scot
Established Member
Caley is pronounced Caley, like it is spelt, which by coincidence rhymes with Sally!
In the 1980s people perhaps had more common sense, and better awareness of the world around them. These days the travelling public are in a world of their own, preoccupied by smartphones/social media, and if someone ends up being killed/injured it will be blamed on the staff. That’s the reason for the shouting in most instances.
I had someone last week running along the platform towards my train after it had already started moving. They were duly bellowed at by the dispatcher, and stepped back. What they hoped to achieve is anyone’s guess! The level of stupidity displayed by the travelling public is mind boggling at times.
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Interesting how times change. I understood the meaning of the announcement when I was still a pre-teen and had only been using the railways for five and a half months.
swt_passenger
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I once watched a group of adults with loads of luggage get off the rear unit at Southampton Parkway, and they complained to anyone who’d listen when the train immediately set off without them. Next stop Southampton Central where the train was due to divide into fast and slow portions for Weymouth and Poole. As it turned out they were only going to Southampton and the whole announcement rigmarole was irrelevant to their actual journey…
The Georgemas Junction split mentioned upthread used to involve keeping a locomotive there to haul the Thurso portion. Like Carstairs the station name suggests something grand, when in reality it's in the middle of nowhere!
Absolutely not to which?
When the rear unit reverses off the front one (by only a foot or two) is it done from the front/country end cab (ie at the split point, so 'reversing') or from the rear cab (so driving 'forwards' but back up the down line a bit)?
Mcr Warrior
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Presumably nowadays, all passengers from the South (for Wick) are now treated to a twenty minute excursion to/from Thurso? When was it this changed? 1990s?
swt_passenger
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It’s the only logical place to do it, especially on gangwayed stock where the new driver has be there anyway to change the hinged partitions from gangway layout to cab layout. He might do that on what is now the back cab of the front unit as well, or a guard might help.
Buzby
Member
I took a trip to Hadfield, where the train went to Glossop then reversed all the way to the destination (just like the Wick/Thurso). As Hadfield was on the Woodhead Line and Glossop the ‘branch’ was this ever handled differently in the past? (Either by splitting at of before Dinting, or with different trains only serving their own terminus?)
Some anti-peak services (up in the morning, down in the afternoons) omitted Glossop, but that's all I recollect. Basically extra services which weren't busy, had worked a peak train and were worked back more quickly than normal to work another, later, peak direction service.
Fermiboson
Member
I don't know if this counts as off thread topic, but occasionally you get RTT saying "service splits here", with no further information on what it splits into, etc. Is this information accurate and how does one find out what it splits into?
Example: 1D14 TfW B'ham Intl to Holyhead at Llandudno Jct.
Example: 1D14 TfW B'ham Intl to Holyhead at Llandudno Jct.
swt_passenger
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It’s effectively just splitting to reduce capacity west of the junction. Looking at the platforming on RTT the rear portion then forms a new service 1D95 back to Chester. That wouldn’t usually be considered splitting to two destinations, as the incoming train has already been through Chester.
Thanks. I wasn’t sure because I didn’t think reversing from a front cab was allowed - is there a maximum it is allowed?
swt_passenger
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Someone else needs to answer that from a rule book perspective, but I’d think uncoupling doesn’t count as reversing. From what I see most regularly with SWR 444s they only move back by about a foot.
It's likely coming from a "-D" activity code in the schedule data. This means that the train is dividing at that location.
However, without an association to another schedule, RTT can't work out what the split-off section forms - so it just shows it as a "blank" split.
How else would you split a train other than reversing one unit off another!?
Moving the front one forward!
thinking about it if the driver can pushback from the front cab of the rear unit it makes communication with the chap on the platform supervising much easier.
Without considering it I had previously assumed the front unit disconnected and then just left, but that would be bold to leave it til departure time……
You need to uncouple the two units, and the controls for doing so are in the intermediate cabs, each cab controlling its own coupler. You could split in either direction, but that will always involve holding the uncouple button in and driving backwards (or “easing up” and rolling backwards with tight lock couplers).
You can’t uncouple a unit other than from an intermediate cab in any traction I’ve ever signed.
Thanks. all makes sense now.
I had not seen it done before, and having only seen joining moves back in the days of filthy blokes on the track hooking up all the connections on slam door stock.
The blokes may well still be filthy, but they can at least remain in the cabs these days!
MrJeeves
Established Member
You obviously hold Uncouple, then quickly run to the other end of the unit to pull forward from that end!
Trains still divided at Georgemas Junction up until around 20 years ago, latterly comprising four-car 156s which split there into two two-car units. The line is now run by single-car 158s, hence the double runs to/from Thurso.
CarrotPie
Member
ScotRail's 158s are two-car sets.
Propelling is reversing in the railway sense (ie the train is driven backwards from the front cab), and is done under the supervision of shunters who provide commentary to the driver via a two way radio. This is fairly commonly done by freight trains when they’re setting back into yards and sidings.
It isn’t something we generally do on the passenger side, with so little still being loco hauled, so perhaps someone else can give chapter and verse, albeit not strictly on topic for a discussion of splitting and joining.
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Mea cupla!
Mcr Warrior
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Thanks for so clarifying. Be right in saying that a ticket easement had to be introduced to allow passengers from the South (for Wick) to stay on the train at Georgemas Junction and so make the extra journey to/from Thurso?
Not needed, the 'direct service' easement covers it.