Used railcard multiple times without having it

pleasehelp1 · 14 Apr 2024

Few days before i was stopped by ticket checking officers in the train station and interviwed under caution because i booked train ticket with 25-30 railcard without having it. It is cross country rail i guess.

Basically, i always used to travel with my husband. But since last month i am travelling alone to a different city because i got a job(i studied for 3 years to get that job). My husband told me he will buy a 25-30 year Railcard for me as i didnt know how to buy it. While booking i thought he bought it already and selected 25-30 railcard as i am 28 years old now. It is just a miscommunication. I was travelling for last one month alone and booked 12 tickets using this railcard and i was never stopped. I also didnt know its mandatory to keep railcard with me. U may think why i am so dumb at this age! Actually for last 1 month i am overwhelmed with my new job and family with 4 young kids, i couldnt read detail the rules and regulations of train things.

That day, After coming home, i have read everything about these rules and i now i know what i did! I bought a railcard immediately. I am very scared about criminal offense as it will affect my job.
When i was interviewed, i said it was unintentional and i apologised. They said i will get a letter. Even that time i was thinking i am getting late for my work and i need to go quickly and couldn't undersrand the seriousness of the situation.
Please advise what to do now and what to write in explanation if they ask.

RailUK Forums

antharro · 14 Apr 2024

Wait for the letter. Once it arrives, post it here, redacting any personal information (name, address, reference numbers, etc). We can then advise on the best course of action to take. In the meantime, I would suggest having a read through the Disputes and Prosecutions section of the forum, looking out for (amongst others) posts from Hadders. These posts will give you an idea of what you might be expected to send.

As a best case, you can expect to pay the full price (anytime) single fares for the journey you were caught on, plus a couple hundred in admin fees. You will be required to pay these as a single lump sum.

If they look at your ticket history then you may be investigated further and will have to pay the anytime single fare for all journeys they have identified plus the admin fees.

Worst case it goes to court.

But right now, wait for the letter. You could also go through your purchase history and identify the journeys you undertook with the false discount, so you can get a rough idea of how much you might be required to pay.

pleasehelp1 · 14 Apr 2024

I just dont want it to go to court. I will pay what they want.

antharro · 14 Apr 2024

For now, make a note of the journeys you've used the discount of, and keep that information safe. The train operating company has up to six months to contact you, so sit tight, try and put this to one side, and deal with it when the letter arrives.

AlbertBeale · 14 Apr 2024

pleasehelp1 said:
I just dont want it to go to court. I will pay what they want.

Presumably you bought the tickets electronically/on-line, not from a machine or a ticket office? If that's the case, then they can link up the journeys and quickly discover that you've made many journeys with a discounted ticket that you weren't entitled to. (Anyway, if you'd bought from a ticket office, you'd probably have been asked to show your railcard when claiming a discounted price - so this couldn't have happened.)

As has been said, they're likely to write and ask you for your side of the story - and you can probably persuade them to settle out of court (in return for paying the full cost of every journey - ignoring what you'd already paid - plus admin costs). Unfortunately, the decision as to whether to take you to court or not is completely theirs; but if you co-operate, there's a fair chance it won't go that far.

The fact that you immediately got a railcard (and that you were entitled to such a card, even though you didn't previously have one) is likely to count in your favour in terms of persuading them that you won't be buying invalid tickets again. Which in turn increases the chance that they'll offer you an out-of-court settlement rather than prosecuting.

pleasehelp1 · 14 Apr 2024

AlbertBeale said:
Presumably you bought the tickets electronically/on-line, not from a machine or a ticket office? If that's the case, then they can link up the journeys and quickly discover that you've made many journeys with a discounted ticket that you weren't entitled to. (Anyway, if you'd bought from a ticket office, you'd probably have been asked to show your railcard when claiming a discounted price - so this couldn't have happened.)

As has been said, they're likely to write and ask you for your side of the story - and you can probably persuade them to settle out of court (in return for paying the full cost of every journey - ignoring what you'd already paid - plus admin costs). Unfortunately, the decision as to whether to take you to court or not is completely theirs; but if you co-operate, there's a fair chance it won't go that far.

The fact that you immediately got a railcard (and that you were entitled to such a card, even though you didn't previously have one) is likely to count in your favour in terms of persuading them that you won't be buying invalid tickets again. Which in turn increases the chance that they'll offer you an out-of-court settlement rather than prosecuting.

I bought all of my tickets through trainline app. And its very easy to see all of my records. I never bought any ticket WITHOUT discount as i thought from the beginning my husband bought the railcard.

Brissle Girl · 14 Apr 2024

You’ll almost certainly avoid prosecution if you cooperate fully and honestly when you are contacted. But expect the Out of Court settlement offer to be substantial if they identify all the previous journeys (which usually they will). You’ll have to pay it within 14 days too, so make sure you have funds available.

You don’t say what journey you regularly make, but for each day you travelled allow for two Anytime single fares, (don’t offset the fare you paid), and then add around £150 as an admin fee. That’s likely to be the highest level of offer that you should plan for.

A final point - make sure you don’t come to any rail company’s attention again, even accidentally. One example of this is to always buy your ticket online BEFORE you set foot on a train. They are unlikely to be forgiving on a second strike. I mention this particularly because you admit you didn’t bother to make any effort to find out what the terms were of using the railcard (or even that your husband had actually bought one). You need to be more diligent to avoid being caught again, especially if your job depends on avoiding a criminal record.

AlterEgo · 14 Apr 2024

pleasehelp1 said:
I bought all of my tickets through trainline app. And its very easy to see all of my records. I never bought any ticket WITHOUT discount as i thought from the beginning my husband bought the railcard.

How would you come to think that, having never actually had the railcard? You need to carry the railcard to validate the fact you're entitled to the discount.

pleasehelp1 · 14 Apr 2024

Brissle Girl said:
You’ll almost certainly avoid prosecution if you cooperate fully and honestly when you are contacted. But expect the Out of Court settlement offer to be substantial if they identify all the previous journeys (which usually they will). You’ll have to pay it within 14 days too, so make sure you have funds available.

You don’t say what journey you regularly make, but for each day you travelled allow for two Anytime single fares, (don’t offset the fare you paid), and then add around £150 as an admin fee. That’s likely to be the highest level of offer that you should plan for.

A final point - make sure you don’t come to any rail company’s attention again, even accidentally. One example of this is to always buy your ticket online BEFORE you set foot on a train. They are unlikely to be forgiving on a second strike. I mention this particularly because you admit you didn’t bother to make any effort to find out what the terms were of using the railcard (or even that your husband had actually bought one). You need to be more diligent to avoid being caught again, especially if your job depends on avoiding a criminal record.

It will never ever happen again.

AlterEgo said:
How would you come to think that, having never actually had the railcard? You need to carry the railcard to validate the fact you're entitled to the discount.

I thought when they scan my ticket, it comes to their machine that I have the railcard or not.

MotCO · 14 Apr 2024

A couple of points regarding your 25-30 railcard to make sure you are not caught out again.. Between 04.30 and 9.59, a minimum fare of £12.00 applies. This means if the normal ticket you buy is, for example, £8, it can't be discounted. Secondly, make a note in your diary/on your phone etc when your railcard expires so that you can renew it in time - no-one will remind you.
Thirdly, if you buy your tickets on Trainline, you will often be charged a commission. Many sites do not, including this forum's ticket site - look at the opening web page for details.

pleasehelp1 · 14 Apr 2024

MotCO said:
A couple of points regarding your 25-30 railcard to make sure you are not caught out again.. Between 04.30 and 9.59, a minimum fare of £12.00 applies. This means if the normal ticket you buy is, for example, £8, it can't be discounted. Secondly, make a note in your diary/on your phone etc when your railcard expires so that you can renew it in time - no-one will remind you.
Thirdly, if you buy your tickets on Trainline, you will often be charged a commission. Many sites do not, including this forum's ticket site - look at the opening web page for details.

pleasehelp1 said:
Few days before i was stopped by ticket checking officers in the train station and interviwed under caution because i booked train ticket with 25-30 railcard without having it. It is cross country rail i guess.

Basically, i always used to travel with my husband. But since last month i am travelling alone to a different city because i got a job(i studied for 3 years to get that job). My husband told me he will buy a 25-30 year Railcard for me as i didnt know how to buy it. While booking i thought he bought it already and selected 25-30 railcard as i am 28 years old now. It is just a miscommunication. I was travelling for last one month alone and booked 12 tickets using this railcard and i was never stopped. I also didnt know its mandatory to keep railcard with me. U may think why i am so dumb at this age! Actually for last 1 month i am overwhelmed with my new job and family with 4 young kids, i couldnt read detail the rules and regulations of train things.

That day, After coming home, i have read everything about these rules and i now i know what i did! I bought a railcard immediately. I am very scared about criminal offense as it will affect my job.
When i was interviewed, i said it was unintentional and i apologised. They said i will get a letter. Even that time i was thinking i am getting late for my work and i need to go quickly and couldn't undersrand the seriousness of the situation.
Please advise what to do now and what to write in explanation if they ask.

How is cross country? Are they very strict? Will they agree out of court settlement? How long they take to send letter? Each day is a nightmare for me now.

Brissle Girl · 14 Apr 2024

All the train operating companies seem to offer settlements as a matter of course, although the basis on which they calculate the avoided fares varies. It’s TfL which almost always prosecuted.

Hadders · 14 Apr 2024

Welcome to the forum!

We don't see too many cases involving Cross Country in this section of the forum - which station do you travel between?

Most train companies will offer an out of court settlement to people who have not come to their attention before and who co-operate with their investigation. They will write to you asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. When this letter arrives pop a redacted copy of it in this thread and we can assist in how to respond.

If you are offered an out of court settlement then you will need to be in a position to pay it within a few days. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the tickets you did purchase. In addition expect to pay an admon fee of around £150. If you are offered a settlement then you will need to be in a position to pay this within a few days so it might be worth doing your own estimate of the sum involved to you know how much you are likely to have to pay.

WesternLancer · 15 Apr 2024

Do cross country trains still use TIL as a contractor for fare evasion follow up work? If so the op can expect to need to work hard for an out of court settlement with them.

However, the forum can help advise on how best to respond at the various stages to get the best outcome.

Hadders · 15 Apr 2024

WesternLancer said:
Do cross country trains still use TIL as a contractor for fare evasion follow up work?

I think they still do.

pleasehelp1 · 15 Apr 2024

WesternLancer said:
Do cross country trains still use TIL as a contractor for fare evasion follow up work? If so the op can expect to need to work hard for an out of court settlement with them.

However, the forum can help advise on how best to respond at the various stages to get the best outcome.

What do u mean by work hard? This anxiety is making me sick.

pleasehelp1 · 15 Apr 2024

Hadders said:
Welcome to the forum!

We don't see too many cases involving Cross Country in this section of the forum - which station do you travel between?

Most train companies will offer an out of court settlement to people who have not come to their attention before and who co-operate with their investigation. They will write to you asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. When this letter arrives pop a redacted copy of it in this thread and we can assist in how to respond.

If you are offered an out of court settlement then you will need to be in a position to pay it within a few days. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the tickets you did purchase. In addition expect to pay an admon fee of around £150. If you are offered a settlement then you will need to be in a position to pay this within a few days so it might be worth doing your own estimate of the sum involved to you know how much you are likely to have to pay.

I will pay whatever they want.

Hadders · 15 Apr 2024

pleasehelp1 said:
What do u mean by work hard? This anxiety is making me sick.

CrossCountry often use a company called Transport Investigations Limited to deal with cases like this on their behalf. Although a settlement can usually be reached it is often necessary to send more than one letter to them. They seem to make it as hard as possible.

WesternLancer · 15 Apr 2024

pleasehelp1 said:
What do u mean by work hard? This anxiety is making me sick.

I am afraid they will be more threatening of prosecution in what they write to you, and they will probably take 2 or perhaps even 3 attempts by you in your reply before they agree a settlement.

However, help form here will be able to guide you on what best to say in response to them.

Please do your best not to get anxious over this. I know it is difficult but all you can do at this stage is wait to hear from them. In the mean time try to put it out of your mind. But if you have any questions of course do feel free to ask.

Sultan · 15 Apr 2024

3 years study to get a (better, well paid) job? Good from that angle, just a shame that you will likely have to use the first few month's salary paying any settlement figure they offer you (if they do). That'll equate to 12 x the standard fare (return?) plus approx £100 admin. You are unlikely to be able to recoup any of the monies you have already paid for the invalid tickets. Hopefully your husband will take some responsibility if he did indeed lead you to believe he had purchased a railcard for you (although if he had, he should have been appreciative that you needed to carry it with you during travel). The fact you bought a railcard immediately will go some way to appeasing Cross Country and you should include this fact in the initial reply to their letter, which will be sent to you in the coming weeks. Until then, make a note of any previous journeys but you are under no obligation (other than morally) to let them know about them if they do not ask.

Honesty is most important. Upload the letter here when it arrives (redacting any personal information) and the forum will be able to advise on how best to proceed. For now, it's just a waiting game.

pleasehelp1 · 15 Apr 2024

Sultan said:
3 years study to get a (better, well paid) job? Good from that angle, just a shame that you will likely have to use the first few month's salary paying any settlement figure they offer you (if they do). That'll equate to 12 x the standard fare (return?) plus approx £100 admin. You are unlikely to be able to recoup any of the monies you have already paid for the invalid tickets. Hopefully your husband will take some responsibility if he did indeed lead you to believe he had purchased a railcard for you (although if he had, he should have been appreciative that you needed to carry it with you during travel). The fact you bought a railcard immediately will go some way to appeasing Cross Country and you should include this fact in the initial reply to their letter, which will be sent to you in the coming weeks. Until then, make a note of any previous journeys but you are under no obligation (other than morally) to let them know about them if they do not ask.

Honesty is most important. Upload the letter here when it arrives (redacting any personal information) and the forum will be able to advise on how best to proceed. For now, it's just a waiting game.

I cant blame my husband. I take the full responsibility of the mistake i have done. My ticket was scanned before and i was not stopped at the station, so i thought everything is going fine.

norbitonflyer · 15 Apr 2024

pleasehelp1 said:
I cant blame my husband. I take the full responsibility of the mistake i have done.

An honest belief that you had a railcard may be a mitigating circumstance though (although the rules do say you should have it with you).

It certainly helped me when I had to defend a driving-without-insurance case. The car's owner (not me) had forgotten that the renewal date and road tax dates had got out of sync. I did get points, but not as many as I might have done.

That was 35 years ago. Since then I have never taken it on trust that any vehicle I am driving (company van, hire car, whatever) is legal - nowadays it is easy to check on the DVLA website.

Used railcard multiple times without having it

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