1) reapply with a different proposition (ie not using congested infrastructure)
2) High Court
3) pack up
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Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway updates
- Thread starter bussnapperwm
- Start date
1) reapply with a different proposition (ie not using congested infrastructure)
2) High Court
3) pack up
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weeklycommuter
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I suppose they could try the Chiltern Line to London Marylebone.
philosopher
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That route did work very well last time it was tried. I think very long journey times over three hours between London and Shrewsbury were the issue.
Anything via Wolverhampton is going for a market that isn’t bothered about journey times.
The Planner
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I doubt they would find the paths through the West Mids to Tyseley now.
Must be a chance via Sutton Park thence St Andrews? With some liberal use of pathing time perhaps.
Journey time would be ‘unambitious’ to say the least, but if would give the opportunity for an OA operator to lose a load of money doing what others have tried and failed to do.
Where’s that ‘like’ button?
DavidGrain
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I used the old Wrexham and Shropshire a few times from Tame Bridge Parkway. Biggest problems were the 30mph speed limit on the Aston Stechford Line, the 15 minute wait with the doors locked at Birmingham International to allow a Virgin train to pass and the single track from Coventry to Leamington.
They're already going via Nuneaton, they could go via the MML from there.
I don't really understand why WSMR think they can make it work financially while not stopping at any major stations (apart from MK). Avanti/Virgin only worked on high-priced business travel, and that's just an extension from Birmingham.
Possibly a judicial review of the ORR decision.
Bertie the bus
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A judicial review would be a waste of money and the court's time. You can't challenge a decision simply because you don't like it but because the authority didn't follow procedures or act rationally. The WCRC case showed the ORR does follow procedures and acts rationally and even if the court ruled in WSMR's favour, by some miracle as random people and businesses wanting a service doesn't mean the service should get the go ahead, it couldn't grant WSMR the rights it is seeking but just direct the ORR to reappraise its submission, and it would no doubt come to the same conclusion which is the correct conclusion. The WCML has regular serious issues and recovery of service regulalry doesn't happen until the next day as we stand so throwing additional services into the mix would just exacerbate the problems.
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Great if you want to go to Bedford. Not if you want to go to London.
I personally agree - at least unless they have evidence that the issues could be addressed. However, the question that l answered essentially asked what WMSR could do next, not what l thought that they should do...
FrontSideBus
Member
Of course it was going to be rejected... I mean a private company who wants to have a good go at it and hopefully make some money.... under this infernal government? Hahahah.
The clock is ticking for other open access operators like Hull Trains, Lumo and Grand Central I reckon!
The clock is ticking for other open access operators like Hull Trains, Lumo and Grand Central I reckon!
ThePeakNed
Member
Err.
I don’t think it is, given they’re pretty long standing (well GC and HT at least) and seem to do pretty well financially.
FrontSideBus
Member
They'll find some way to nationalise them I bet!
DelW
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For clarity, was that meant to say "... did not work very well ..."? Otherwise your two sentences seem to contradict each other.
duffield
Established Member
Did you read the ORR decision? It was the absolute clear cut lack of capacity on the WCML that put a stop to all three of the applications they turned down. A capacity problem which is pretty much indisputable and is why the remains of HS2 are still going ahead. The ORR could see that the current timetable is barely operable and falls apart at the slightest disruption, and that it would be madness to introduce extra services in these circumstances. They didn't even have to consider other factors such as the effect on public finances via fare abstraction etc.
It's absolutely clear this application would have been rejected by the ORR under any government.
victormildrew
Member
If the ORR knew this all along, as you say, then why did it take nearly 18 months to reject these applications?.
LittleRedTrain
Member
The old WSMR folded before the Chiltern services to Oxford commenced.
I'm not sure if there are even the fast paths available to do this any more between Bicester and Marylebone, especially with the flat junction at Bicester South, or platforms at Marylebone.
As it is, any minor issue on the south end of the Chiltern line affects services for hours as queues rapidly build up and there are very few opportunities to let a fast train past a stopper.
It's unfortunate that the chord at Smethwick Galton Bridge points the wrong way, otherwise you could possibly extend some of the Chiltern Birmingham services on to Wolverhampton/Shrewsbury that way, avoiding the congestion at New St.
Clarence Yard
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Because they were waiting for NR to comment, much to everyone’s frustration.
The slower Marylebone to Snow Hill services (~××:36 from Marylebone) are down from 1tph pre-Covid to 1tp2h and none of the Stratford services run through to London anymore, so shouldn't that provide sufficient paths, at least as far as Kings Sutton?
And then, in the spirit of the old WSMR, it could run to Oxford, Reading, Wokingham, Guildford, Redhill and Victoria.
The Planner
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Careful, the rose tinted brigade will want Wolverhampton Low Level back next.
Topological
Established Member
Be fair, Wolverhampton Low Level would avoid conflict with trains between Smethwick and Stafford.
You could even re-route the WMR and TfW trains to Snow Hill and use their current paths for a 350/2 operated service to Manchester and a CrossCountry to Liverpool.
Or, in the real world, board a local train in Wrexham or Shrewsbury, make a single connection, and get to London faster.
DavidGrain
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Stratford upon Avon lost its London service because the paths from Bicester to London were required for the Oxford Services.
The chord at Smethwick Galton Bridge faces the correct way for its historic traffic and is still used on a daily basis by 3 Cross Country trains, 1 WMR train, freight trains and excursions / stock movements to SVR. I doubt that there would be capacity on the Stour Valley Line for Chiltern trains to Wolverhampton.
The trams would be rather upset.
Topological
Established Member
Could build them some new lines to play on. You are right that the plan does not consider all those gloating passengers from Shrewsbury who disembark at Snow Hill and laugh at the poor trams confined to shuttling to the New Street shopping centre.
Too many speculative threads fail to take into account the feelings of old stock. It is great we have the DfT to protect the rights of the old stock to keep going.
well done sir!On the serious note, the line almost certainly offers an overall better service to the public as a local tram route than it would as a secondary heavy rail route, especially now the trams actually get through Birmingham city centre.