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GorillaBus - new coach service

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Xenophon PCDGS

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As for the changes, I did mention a while back that it was our intention to review the extensive network after talking with our customers. From these conversations, it was clear that serving certain locations was increasing journey times unnecessarily, as customers were frequently making onward connections. Manchester Airport and Meadowhall offer equivalent, and in some cases better, facilities for travel to the same suburbs as their respective city centres.

Thank you for coming back to the forum with your explanations. I have just one question for you with regard to the Manchester Airport bus and coach station. Will you be using the coach bays A to C there or will you have alternative stopping places?
 
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theblackwatch

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Meagabus have already given up on central Sheffield (Arundel Gate) and moved their local "stop" to Meadowhall (which is also convenient for a large part of Rotherham etc), I can see why you're doing the same.

Meadowhall is also much better for parking (and free!). If I'm going to Sheffield I tend to park there (2 mins off the M1) and then train or tram it into the centre.
 

tbtc

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Meadowhall is also much better for parking (and free!). If I'm going to Sheffield I tend to park there (2 mins off the M1) and then train or tram it into the centre.

True - they should rename it "Sheffield Park & Ride (with a shopping centre tacked on)"
 

theblackwatch

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True - they should rename it "Sheffield Park & Ride (with a shopping centre tacked on)"

Several members on here refer to it as 'Sheffield Parkway' - in reality, there is actually a road into Sheffield known as the Sheffield Parkway.

Getting back on topic, has anyone on here actually used Gorilla Bus or even seen one?
 

Schnellzug

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So if they're being run under contract, does that mean that they're all in contractors' liveries? How are prospective customers expected to identify them, then? Do they have little bits of paper sellotaped to the windscreen in the manner of hastily organised rail replacement services? I haven't even seen any mention of it in Buses, can anyone confirm that it does actually exist?
 

pemma

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So if they're being run under contract, does that mean that they're all in contractors' liveries? How are prospective customers expected to identify them, then? Do they have little bits of paper sellotaped to the windscreen in the manner of hastily organised rail replacement services? I haven't even seen any mention of it in Buses, can anyone confirm that it does actually exist?

If they don't exist East Midlands Airport and the NUS are going to be left red faced as they promote Gorilla Bus.
 

Schnellzug

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So why does it still draw a blank on google Images? I'd have thought even if they did use all contractors' vehicles, someone would by now have come across one of those. I'm not trying to insinuate anything, just wondering why it seems so secretive.
 

Steve Elms

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Yes, we will be using the bus and coach station at Manchester Airport, although TfGM haven't yet allocated a stand - as soon as that is confirmed it will be added to the site. We do, of course, keep customers updated about details such as these anyway. I'm aware that there are few other locations at the Airport that various tour operators use, including the shelter on International Drive, but they were a little too obscure, particularly for inbound passengers. And no, there's no secrecy over the vehicles - actually, I was photographed in Nottingham a few weeks ago.. However, nothing is, as yet, in livery, largely due to the vehicle allocation varying from mini-coach to full-size dependent upon loadings, and it not really being reasonable to ask contractors to keep a range of dedicated vehicles of varying sizes. Once demand settles into a predictable pattern, we will be expecting dedicated vehicles in full livery, and that will obviously also bring advantages of more general awareness. I think I touched on this as one of the reasons not to be using pictures on the website at the moment. In the meantime we are using magnetic signs, similar to those used by National Express on some of their regular duplicate vehicles, carrying the name and gorilla logo. I'm not aware of any issues with customers identifying the vehicles, there certainly haven't been on the occasions that I have driven myself, but we do provide a contact number on the booking confirmation in case a situation such as this did arise, and customers are invited to similarly provide a contact number for drivers. To be honest, the only issue we have needed to act to resolve quickly has been with the location of certain stops - many of our locations were specifically chosen as they were allocated as coach drop off points by local authorities to encourage tourism, and were therefore ideal in many ways - the Birmingham stop being a prime example, located immediately adjacent to both New Street Station and the Bull Ring, and, to my mind anway, much more convenient for many customers than Digbeth - but for some reason, many of these have had their street markings changed from 'Coaches' to 'Buses' during the late summer, making their identity a lot less clear. As this has happened in four of the cities we serve, I can only assume that there has been some sort of local authority directive that has not been made generally known. This has been one of the main reasons we have relocated some of our stops, and was behind the final decision to leave Manchester City Centre. We would have liked to relocate to Shudehill, but this is currently running at capacity, and the number of customers asking to be dropped on the outskirts of the city made the airport a logical alternative. One of the other advantages of Meadowhall, of course, is that it is closer to places like Rotherham. And yes, you're right, Sheffield Parkway is the main route from the M1 to Park Place roundabout, a few junctions away from Meadowhall.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry, missed a few of the posts on the previous page, I unintentionally echoed your point on Rotherham, tbtc, but it is true, Sheffield is one of those cities that encompasses a pretty wide hinterland, and fair point, embers25, although we do still serve plenty of other cities. I don't think we're quite stretching the point as far as Ryanair though! I seem to recall one of their proposals being to rename John Lennon Airport to Manchester-Liverpool. That went down well! I personally suspect it will become a lot more common a practice, there are quite a few reports recommending out-of-town calling places, aside from those existing coachways as Milton Keynes, Warndon and Reading, and some of the locations Megabus use. Even the location of many coach stations on the peripheries of urban centres, including Birmingham and Liverpool, as well as, of course, Victoria, suggests that a significant number of customers are making onward connections rather than visiting city centres per se. I only have to recall the number of NatEx customers alighting at Golders Green to transfer to the Tube during my driving days to support this. As I mentioned earlier, just diverting through Nottingham can add an hour to a journey - if there is an alternative that doesn't cause significant inconvenience, it has to be worth at least considering to keep express coaches as a feasible alternative to other modes.
 

embers25

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Given the often horrendous traffic in Nottingham and between Chesterfield and Sheffield I can totally agree that given the route length it makes sense to stay as close to the M1 as possible and miss all the delays as it gives a better chance of on time running.
 

pemma

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I think the pricing will come in to play here. People will probably be happy to pay a Supertram fare to Meadowhall on top of a £1 coach ticket from Meadowhall to Liverpool, if they live in the Sheffield area but not too close to Meadowhall. However, if it's a £10 coach ticket to Liverpool the train will be a better option for most people.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I have just checked their website again to make a price comparison. For their Manchester to Bradford service, the adult single price is £10.00 plus booking fee.

The Northern Rail service from Manchester Victoria to Bradford Interchange is shown on National Rail Enquires as being off-peak single for £10.30.

Not much price differential.
 

Steve Elms

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Manchester to Bradford is currently priced at £5, plus booking fee. It's a fair point that you make, jcollins, and it is a question of balance when choosing to stick to out-of-town locations, the pricing function should actually now be driven by taking into account Sheffield and Meadowhall as one base departure point, rather than as separate locations. Having just checked our site now, Meadowhall to Liverpool is currently offered at £6 from both Meadowhall and the city centre, with advance fares available at £5 and £1 on some dates. It's probably also worth bearing in mind that, for those customers who may have to connect from the city centre, two of the primary groups of users of express coaches are students, and the over 60s, with the former group receiving discounts on their tickets anyway, and the latter able to use concessionary travel for most of the day to make the connection.
 

embers25

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Manchester to Bradford is currently priced at £5, plus booking fee. It's a fair point that you make, jcollins, and it is a question of balance when choosing to stick to out-of-town locations, the pricing function should actually now be driven by taking into account Sheffield and Meadowhall as one base departure point, rather than as separate locations. Having just checked our site now, Meadowhall to Liverpool is currently offered at £6 from both Meadowhall and the city centre, with advance fares available at £5 and £1 on some dates. It's probably also worth bearing in mind that, for those customers who may have to connect from the city centre, two of the primary groups of users of express coaches are students, and the over 60s, with the former group receiving discounts on their tickets anyway, and the latter able to use concessionary travel for most of the day to make the connection.

Last night when looking for tickets for today Meadowhall was normally always a different price to Sheffield. For example Liv-Meadowhall £13, Liv-Sheff £15. Though Manc-Liv for £2 seemed a bargain for same day travel!
 

Deerfold

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I only have to recall the number of NatEx customers alighting at Golders Green to transfer to the Tube during my driving days to support this. As I mentioned earlier, just diverting through Nottingham can add an hour to a journey - if there is an alternative that doesn't cause significant inconvenience, it has to be worth at least considering to keep express coaches as a feasible alternative to other modes.

I used to do Leeds - London Victoria by coach fairly often. I used to bail at Golders Green and get the tube due to the congestion - I usually got to Victoria about 20 minutes before the coach (and I was actually heading for the coach station!). In the other direction I boarded at Victoria to ensure a random tube problem didn't make me miss the coach. Of course the fact I didn't have to pay any extra for the tube influenced the decision.
 

pemma

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A lot of new stops have appeared in the booking system. It appears they'll be a new Scottish service as Carlisle, Hamilton and Glasgow have appeared in the list. The Scottish service only seems to be on selected days though.

Other new stops that have appeared are Liverpool South Parkway, Keighley, Knutsford, Skipton and Tamworth.
 

OMGitsDAVE

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A lot of new stops have appeared in the booking system. It appears they'll be a new Scottish service as Carlisle, Hamilton and Glasgow have appeared in the list. The Scottish service only seems to be on selected days though.

Other new stops that have appeared are Liverpool South Parkway, Keighley, Knutsford, Skipton and Tamworth.

From the GorillaBus Facebook:

On 1 December, we launch our new overnight weekend service, linking Wolverhampton, Birmingham, East Midlands Airport, Meadowhall, Leeds and Bradford with Carlisle, Hamilton and Glasgow. Fares start at just £1, plus 50p booking fee - check out our website for more information!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Gorilla-Bus/153262341414264
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Yes, we will be using the bus and coach station at Manchester Airport, although TfGM haven't yet allocated a stand - as soon as that is confirmed it will be added to the site. We do, of course, keep customers updated about details such as these anyway. I'm aware that there are few other locations at the Airport that various tour operators use, inconvenience, it has to be worth at least considering to keep express coaches as a feasible alternative to other modes.

Thank you for the information about the proposed use of the facilities at Manchester Airport bus and coach station. National Express have the main use of stands A to C, with a sales and information office in that area. The stands where Rail Replacement coaches use is at the other end of the bays and in these same bays, various coach companies seem to be found.

I will monitor the situation there over the coming period of time.
 

radamfi

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The timetable is now on the Manchester Airport website.

Apparently Gorilla Bus now sell through fares to Nottingham via East Midlands Airport via Skylink. Just rang NCT and they don't seem to have even heard of Gorilla Bus.
 

pemma

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Apparently Gorilla Bus now sell through fares to Nottingham via East Midlands Airport via Skylink. Just rang NCT and they don't seem to have even heard of Gorilla Bus.

They don't appear to though. If you select the Nottingham option, no fares come up.

Can you buy Skylink tickets in the Airport terminal or do they have to be bought on the bus? If you can buy them in the terminal then maybe it's an agreement with East Midlands Airport opposed to Gorilla Bus.
 
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pemma

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Glasgow, Hamilton, Carlisle and Keighley have been removed as stops, despite only recently being added.
 

embers25

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Gorillabus themselves (the 0845 number which led to a guy with a Liverpool accent...Steve?) have just confirmed the Scotland services are cancelled due to them "having some issues". Apparently the East Midlands Website will be updated reflecting the new (again) timetables. Looks like from the website there is now only a Liverppol to EMA with a possible feeder from Brum to Bradford...given the level of changes and cancellations it does make you wonder what the chances are of your booked service actually appearing. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence which is a real shame as I was kinda hoping they would take off and give Nat Exp a run for their money.
 

pemma

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given the level of changes and cancellations it does make you wonder what the chances are of your booked service actually appearing.

Have there been cancellations where people have booked in advance apart from on the removed Scottish services?

It certainly wouldn't impress me if I had booked in advance and then told the service was cancelled, ignoring an odd cancellation for a broken down coach.

I'd be attracted to use the service if there were more cheap fares available. The singles are generally cheaper than a single train fare but two singles are generally more expensive than a return train fare.
 

embers25

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Not sure on whether there have been numerous cancellations. From looking at days pre Dec 1 it seems many places are only served random days and times which would suggest they are just running services where people had prebooked. Based on his rather curt response of GM Buses Yahoo group I get the feeling that he's getting annoyed with railforums (or as he describes us one small forum!) constantly querying this service. The problem is his constant changes to routes, stops, timetables and website don't help. Neither do his fares which are as you pointed out often dearer than rail for a return and also very cheap fares are even more thin on the ground than megabus.

It is sad as the initial concept seems sound but it seems poorly launched and very poorly organised. Also the cancellation of the Scottish service isn't even announced on the website and its all well and good refunding tickets but this close to departure you won't get alternative travel for that cost. Its worse than Ryanair as refunds don't make last minute cancellations ok. If the Scottish service had issues that were unresolved don't advertise it until you are sure you can run it. Makes you wonder just how pie in the sky it all is and has anyone found on any forum a user of these services? I know he challenges us to use them and see for ourselves but I'm not wasting good money on a service that is this badly run and this likely to be cancelled/retimed. Also it's very noticeable that his facebook and website groups have virtually no followers/members...hardly a sign of confidence. All in all very half ass and such a shame. Also how do you book Skylink give the website won't let you!?
 

Steve Elms

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The 'issues' with the Glasgow service are related to a partnership project we are about to participate in. The decision to remove it from the website as soon as possible was taken because there weren't yet any bookings, so if there was a good time to postpone the facility, this was it - in my experience such services don't receive many far-advanced bookings - and therefore no need for cancellations or refunds. We have not cancelled any booked customer's journey since we began operation.

I'm a little confused as to the comment on 'constant changes' - from the start it was made clear that the initial timetable would be revised from the start of December to reflect the facilities that people were actually using, and this is exactly what has happened - this is that revision, and other than the Glasgow service, nothing else has been changed a second time. The stops at Keighley, Skipton and Carlisle were part of the Glasgow service, hence their removal. The only change to the information on the EMA website will be removing the Glasgow journey.

There are two services from the 1 December changes, Liverpool to EMA, and Wolverhampton to Bradford, connecting at EMA. This is exactly the core of the original service, with only the Trans-Pennine and Liverpool to Birmingham sections, which were under-used, and only incidental for operational reasons of having contractors based in Birmingham and Liverpool anyway, removed. The remaining, bulk, of the intial network, was amended to speed up journey times on the sections being well used, and re-timed to reflect winter flight timetables at EMA.

The changes to the stops have, in the main, been improvements, mainly relocating to either formal bus stations or stops with better local facilities - I don't really see how that is customer un-friendly, and the changes were notified well in advance.

A few facilities disappeared from the booking engine before the end of November, because there seemed little point in advertising a poorly used facility that wouldn't exist after that date.

It also seems rather odd to criticise changes to the website bearing in mind how vocal many of your comments were about the old design!

I'm equally confused as to remarks on being unable to book through journeys on to Skylink - the facility has been available on the booking engine since the day it was announced, and still is. Incidentally, NCT's travel enquiry service wouldn't have been able to answer any questions about our operation, yes, perhaps because the information hadn't filtered down just an few hours after agreeing the facility with NCT, but mainly because we are acting as an agent for their service, and not the other way around.

We have previously discussed the issue of the launch, and whilst accepting some of you have very different opinions, we are getting through to the people we wanted to reach, and that is, surely, the point? As for poorly organised, you are entitled to your opinion, but, to me, all that matters, is that customers are able to book online without a problem, their bus turns up, and they have a safe and comfortable journey, and that is precisely what has happened on every occasion someone has travelled with us.

I also note your comment asking if any forum member has travelled, but I have mentioned this before - of all the comments made, I don't recall a single one enquiring about the service itself. Fair point on Facebook and the user group, but the opportunity to join and comment is open, I can't force people to take part! I guess most customers prefer to email or telephone rather than post in public and wait for a reply - in any case, if you understood who the vast majority of our customers were, you would probably understand why they would be unlikely to comment in such places. That doesn't mean that the opportunity shouldn't be there.

I am sorry if you took my comment about a 'small forum' to be an insult, my remark was in response to the claim made in that posting, and not meant in any way to be offensive. I don't have any issue with the forum whatsoever, you are perfectly entitled to your opinions, but it is a little depressing that every comment is followed by a barrage of criticism, and rarely a question or suggestion, especially as I have made the effort to answer every one of your points rather than taking the route of crying to a moderator for comments to be removed, and in the full knowledge that few, if any, of you, ever intend to use the service regardless of any assurance I give.
 

embers25

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I can assure you Skylink has hardly ever worked until today and its interesting that for tomorrow for example it is £12 to Nottingham from Liverpool via Skylink from EMA and yet that same bus is £18 to EMA!!! I was planning on using the service on Saturday but your website couldn't decide which services were running. Hopefully things will improve as I stated previously Nat Exp could dowith some competition
 

Steve Elms

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My apologies if you took that wrong, I wasn't accusing you of making it up! I was sincerely expressing my confusion as all seemed to be working fine when I checked just before responding. There haven't been any server updates since the Skylink location was uploaded last week, so I have to admit that I can't explain how any scheduled journeys were unavailable, but I will have it looked into. I don't suppose you can recall when you last checked before today? If you do encounter any difficulties, you are more than welcome to send an email with your journey details, and we can send a PayPal link which still generates the booking confirmation. Then again, if you have found a departure via Skylink prior to 1 December, there clearly is an issue somewhere, as the arrangement doesn't commence until then, and there should be no available dates for booking prior. The system works on nodes and connections, so I suppose it's possible that it has created a link that shouldn't be there as there is an automation function - it shouldn't allow you to reach the booking stage in such an instance, but, for what it's worth, we would have honoured the booking if it had. Having said that, on the matter of fares, as with any competitive pricing system, there will always be some anomalies - you can find them just as much with rail or National Express - the system compares like-for-like, and you may well find some nearby destinations at varying prices. Exploit it if it works out cheaper to book an alternative way, tough on us, really, isn't it?!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just a quick footnote as well - not sure when it was changed, but the East Midlands website does now reflect the full timetable from 1 December.
 
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