Are Merseyrail stations exempt from smoking ban?.

yorkie said:

I saw one last week. Before that, I didn't know they existed. I thought it was a joke at first, but they are real. And, I'm told, it works out cheaper.

Click to expand...

Ryanair sells them and encourages people to smoke onboard their planes. Apparently though (so say people who smoke - as you've probably guessed I don't ) they're not very good.

Bedpan said:

...but in Scotland you can smoke on a platform as long as its in the open. I had always assumed that this was because Scotland had a different legal system to England and Wales and so the laws were worded differently.

Click to expand...

The Clean Air Act (2006) prohibited smoking in all enclosed public places. The definition of 'enclosed' was 3 walls and a roof. It was introduced independantly of the one brought into act in England and Wales.

jcollins said:

Some Merseyrail staff do fine people for smoking in shelters/canopies marked with no smoking signs but like most stations if there's just one member of station staff there and a group of people smoking they probably won't confront them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The law states smoking is illegal in any enclosed public space. This means smoking in ticket offices, waiting rooms or trains is definetly illegal. Canopies and shelters are a bit debateable though but most transport operators and councils have decided canopies and shelters are enclosed public spaces.

Click to expand...

There's no fixed fine for breaching a No Smoking rule. Fines, in terms of Penalty Notices for Disorder (PND) or Fixed Penalty Notices (FPN), certainly as far as the railway is concerned, aren't used for byelaw offences, but are reserved for recordable offences. Therefore, Merseyrail staff would have to report for summons instead.

Also, as long as you can prove, either through the offender's own admittance, or through obtaining CCTV evidence etc, that they passed a No Smoking sign, then they can be reported. They don't have to be particularly near one. Bear in mind, where the Smoking ban exists, TOCs are only obliged to put up signage at each entrance/exit to the station for it to be enforceable.

Only wordage (?) I can find covering railway byelaws and smoking is :-

3. Smoking
No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

So I ask again, what is the legislation that allows a TOC to impose a blanket ban on smoking on the whole of a station? Would smoking be legally allowed say at the end of a platform 'not near' a 'no smoking sign'?

cyclops said:

So I ask again, what is the legislation that allows a TOC to impose a blanket ban on smoking on the whole of a station? Would smoking be legally allowed say at the end of a platform 'not near' a 'no smoking sign'?

Click to expand...

You need to ask the reverse question - what legislation is there to stop a TOC operating a blanket smoking ban? The answer is none, therefore they can operate a full smoking ban even in open ventilated areas.

cyclops said:

Only wordage (?) I can find covering railway byelaws and smoking is :-

3. Smoking
No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

So I ask again, what is the legislation that allows a TOC to impose a blanket ban on smoking on the whole of a station? Would smoking be legally allowed say at the end of a platform 'not near' a 'no smoking sign'?

Click to expand...

Define "near" a No Smoking sign. Near could be an entire platform's length!

Quite.

Whatever a magistrate deems 'near' to mean perhaps?

Also, considering that all rail stations where smoking is prohibited only legally need to have No Smoking signage at all entrances/exits, any good prosecutor or staff member who is reporting the offence, will make it clear that there is signage whereby the passenger had to pass to gain access to the platform, and submit photo evidence where possible.

Here's a photo of the notices at the entrances and around stations in Scotland. Pretty specific wording.