0540 Edinburgh-London KX 23.05.11 (The Flying Scotsman)

NightatLaira · 19 May 2011

Ok, so who's going to be on the first passenger train to run non-stop through York Station in (25years?) next week on Monday? :lol:

Is anyone lined up to capture its historic cruise through York station on film, and more importantly, when will they put it up on YouTube?!

I presume the railway press will be covering this as well - is there a designated 'press coach' for Eureka?

(I might actually be on it on the Tuesday funnily enough as I've got an interview at 12 noon in Baker St but the prices are so high on the 0540 the wallet might decide to put me on the 0545 or worse still the boring plane instead! :cry: )

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flymo · 19 May 2011

What's the chances of a signal check and a stop there???

ainsworth74 · 19 May 2011

flymo said:
What's the chances of a signal check and a stop there???

That would be quite amusing if it got signal checked inside the station might as well just open the doors and forget the whole non-stop business!

To be honest though I will be moderately surprised if it actually manages to regularly reach Kings Cross in 4hrs because I can't imagine that it isn't going to end up getting yellows at some point during it's run and that will be all it takes probably to ruin it's run.

Also does anyone fancy betting that either in next December's timetable or next May's a York stop get's quietly added and not long after that a few more will creep in?

DarloRich · 19 May 2011

ainsworth74 said:
That would be quite amusing if it got signal checked inside the station might as well just open the doors and forget the whole non-stop business!

To be honest though I will be moderately surprised if it actually manages to regularly reach Kings Cross in 4hrs because I can't imagine that it isn't going to end up getting yellows at some point during it's run and that will be all it takes probably to ruin it's run.

Also does anyone fancy betting that either in next December's timetable or next May's a York stop get's quietly added and not long after that a few more will creep in?

I think you are quite right - it will go something like this:

EC are proud to announce the return of the Flying Scotsman. Our passengers have asked us for a sub four hour service form Edinbugh to London and we are happy to oblige, referance hostory , big press launch etc.

After the first timetable EC put out a press release saying hat the demand for the service form other stations is such that they are considering extra stops for their prestigious service. The real reason being demand is lower than expected because they cant keep to the timetable for various reasons

Next year a York stop goes in because of demand and "operation requirements"

Thereafter even more stops come into the timetable

Finally the name goes till a marketing boost is needed and the circle starts again!

or am I too cynical?

ainsworth74 · 19 May 2011

DarloRich said:
or am I too cynical?

No I think your spot on! I'm fairly sure this is just something to give them a big woop (not that it's that big) for the launch of the new 'revolutionary' timetable and as soon as is convenient the new service will be scrapped/watered down.

Fred26 · 19 May 2011

I think it's a silly idea. One train per day, as far as I'm aware, will make this journey. Complete gimmick. I believe all East Coast services north of Doncaster, on the main line, should stop at York. It's a very important interchange. I can't see any reason not to include it.

CompactDstrxion · 19 May 2011

Would be funnier if it was put on the avoider line by mistake, leaving everyone on the platform waiting to film scratching their heads!

MidnightFlyer · 19 May 2011

I thought EC men didn't sign the Avoider regardless?

jopsuk · 19 May 2011

reckon the first journey (or even the first week) the signalers are going to be under "gun to head" level instructions to make sure the thing gets through- and damn every other service.

38Cto15E · 19 May 2011

What is the line speed through the station, about 25mph?

GNERman · 19 May 2011

30mph

And no, EC drivers do not sign the avoider...

VideozVideoz · 19 May 2011

NightatLaira said:
Ok, so who's going to be on the first passenger train to run non-stop through York Station in (25years?) next week on Monday?

Is anyone lined up to capture its historic cruise through York station on film, and more importantly, when will they put it up on YouTube?!

I presume the railway press will be covering this as well - is there a designated 'press coach' for Eureka?

(I might actually be on it on the Tuesday funnily enough as I've got an interview at 12 noon in Baker St but the prices are so high on the 0540 the wallet might decide to put me on the 0545 or worse still the boring plane instead! :cry: )

2 x £80 singles is a lot cheaper than the return ticket you're talking about.

NightatLaira · 19 May 2011

VideozVideoz said:
2 x £80 singles is a lot cheaper than the return ticket you're talking about.

True, but by using up a few airmiles all you pay is the landing charges (which add up to a competitive £68.82)... perfect for times like these when you have to go to London at short notice, and the cheap fares aren't available.:roll:

So just out of interest...

(and it's bound to happen) - what are EC going to do when a seemingly blissfully unaware traveller boards at Newcastle headed to *wherever* in the north of England, expecting the train to stop at York and winds up in London!

That's either going to become one hell of an expensive excess fare for the *innocent passenger* - or a very cheap way for a crafty fare dodger to travel to London with a ticket to York depending on the rigidness of the conductor.

Some interesting dilemmas for EC staff to handle in the future methinks!

Anon Mouse · 20 May 2011

The whole new 'improvements' are a gimmick. Extra trains to Newark which I guess would be running empty but hey-ho it looks like EC are giving us more services, improved 1st class only catering, nice letters to Rail from Elaine Holt and this non-stop service which I would imagine will be signal checked and I agree, will be short lived.

Over the years, well since Nat Ex, the East Coast franchise has gone from being fantastic to terrible. During the time of GNER they were proud to have restaurant cars, every train had a trolley in standard and a buffet, there were plenty of staff, a UK based Call Centre, a Flying Scotsman service departing at its historical 1000 departure from KX.

I also find it a bit bad that from the timetable change, every train beyond York will stop at Darlington spelling the end of the non-stop service between Newcastle and York, It also amazes me that they are making a big thing about the 4 hours flyer, BR managed a quicker service in 1991 IIRC

NightatLaira · 20 May 2011

Anon Mouse said:
BR managed a quicker service in 1991 IIRC

Quite, I would get rid of padding tomorrow given the chance. And I would most certainly bring back the GNER attitude to service. That company knew how to do first class! And the only reason why they went pop is because Sea Containers' share price crashed on tetchy speculation from investors who didn't really understand the rail industry and panicked when they got wind of the emergence of the new open access operator Grand Central.

But anyway! Back to the subject... who's going to be filming/on this historic journey?

RichmondCommu · 20 May 2011

NightatLaira said:
Ok, so who's going to be on the first passenger train to run non-stop through York Station in (25years?) next week on Monday?

Is anyone lined up to capture its historic cruise through York station on film, and more importantly, when will they put it up on YouTube?!

I presume the railway press will be covering this as well - is there a designated 'press coach' for Eureka?

(I might actually be on it on the Tuesday funnily enough as I've got an interview at 12 noon in Baker St but the prices are so high on the 0540 the wallet might decide to put me on the 0545 or worse still the boring plane instead! :cry: )

Better still head south the day before and get a good nights sleep in a very good YHA nearby! You don't want to lose out 'cos you're half asleep!

Skimble19 · 20 May 2011

Anon Mouse said:
Over the years, well since Nat Ex, the East Coast franchise has gone from being fantastic to terrible. During the time of GNER they were proud to have restaurant cars, every train had a trolley in standard and a buffet, there were plenty of staff, a UK based Call Centre, a Flying Scotsman service departing at its historical 1000 departure from KX.

I also find it a bit bad that from the timetable change, every train beyond York will stop at Darlington spelling the end of the non-stop service between Newcastle and York, It also amazes me that they are making a big thing about the 4 hours flyer, BR managed a quicker service in 1991 IIRC

Trains will still have a trolley and a buffet.. there will still be plenty of staff. Okay, the call centre is moving - it's a shame but won't effect that many people. The Flying Scotsman departing at 1000 from KX? Has that one service alone really turned the franchise from fantastic to terrible?!

As for every train beyond york stopping at Darlington - they aren't all stopping there. As for making a big thing about the new Flying Scotsman service - why not? Most punters won't remember service times from 1991 :lol:

flymo · 20 May 2011

I'm certainly interested to seeing some footage of it heading through York non-stop, should any be made of course. I feel kind of weird really to get interested about a train not stopping somewhere, Have today's railways really become that boring?

I know in the late 90's, early 00's the Scottish Pullman did both Edinburgh - KX and KX - Edinburgh in 3h 59m and had stops at Newcastle and York. 0600 ex Edinburgh into KX at 0959, 1500 ex KX into Edinburgh at 1859.

Still, interesting to see the Newcastle - KX non stop back, like others however I also believe it is only a matter of time before a stop at York is included.

Geezertronic · 20 May 2011

NightatLaira said:
So just out of interest... (and it's bound to happen) - what are EC going to do when a seemingly blissfully unaware traveller boards at Newcastle headed to *wherever* in the north of England, expecting the train to stop at York and winds up in London!

That's either going to become one hell of an expensive excess fare for the *innocent passenger* - or a very cheap way for a crafty fare dodger to travel to London with a ticket to York depending on the rigidness of the conductor.

I remember when the local news covered the first time VT ran their 0730 BHM-EUS non stop service and one of the guys interviewed on the train said he was only trying to get to Coventry. They obviously didn't say what happened to him though

me123 · 20 May 2011

flymo said:
Still, interesting to see the Newcastle - KX non stop back, like others however I also believe it is only a matter of time before a stop at York is included.

And only a matter of time before they herald this as "good news" for the people of York, who now have an extra train arriving into London before 10am :lol:

Welshman · 20 May 2011

flymo said:
I know in the late 90's, early 00's the Scottish Pullman did both Edinburgh - KX and KX - Edinburgh in 3h 59m and had stops at Newcastle and York. 0600 ex Edinburgh into KX at 0959, 1500 ex KX into Edinburgh at 1859.

They were initially scheduled for 3h 59m, but lack of recovery time meant those timings were unrealistic.

Have things changed that much since then?

It will be interesting to see how this train performs after the initial publicity has subsided.

cle · 20 May 2011

flymo said:
I'm certainly interested to seeing some footage of it heading through York non-stop, should any be made of course. I feel kind of weird really to get interested about a train not stopping somewhere, Have today's railways really become that boring?

I know in the late 90's, early 00's the Scottish Pullman did both Edinburgh - KX and KX - Edinburgh in 3h 59m and had stops at Newcastle and York. 0600 ex Edinburgh into KX at 0959, 1500 ex KX into Edinburgh at 1859.

Still, interesting to see the Newcastle - KX non stop back, like others however I also believe it is only a matter of time before a stop at York is included.

I completely agree! They should be able to add in York and make the timings. The fact that they're not just proves today's padding is beyond the pale.

And what's so special about Darlington that every train should stop there? I've never known. Doncaster is more important, for one and not everything should stop there. If anywhere was to be added, it should be Peterborough as next in line.

I think York - Newcastle - Edinburgh should be a standard stopping pattern for 1tph - and this should be the one which extends to Aberdeen/Inverness/Glasgow. People can connect very easily up the line.

And Berwick serves a smaller population radius than any - it should be served by the slower EC services such as the Newcastle stoppers, extending to Edinburgh.

NightatLaira · 20 May 2011

With modern day padding I can see it doing a Finsbury Park pass 10mins early most days.. possibly sitting outside KX waiting for platform availability for 10mins and then arriving on time.

Hull Trains fast services regularly arrive in Donny 10mins ahead of schedule

Welshman · 20 May 2011

NightatLaira said:
With modern day padding I can see it doing a Finsbury Park pass 10mins early most days.. possibly sitting outside KX waiting for platform availability for 10mins and then arriving on time.

Hull Trains fast services regularly arrive in Donny 10mins ahead of schedule

As all down Hull trains stop at Retford [and presumably wait for time], I suppose it's the superior acceleration of the Cl180s which enables them to get to Doncaster in 2-3 minutes!!!

gordonthemoron · 20 May 2011

I liked it back in the late 80s, pre-electification, when there was a non-stop HST from KGX to Grantham in the afternoon peak which only took 59 mins

NightatLaira · 20 May 2011

My apologies - I meant GC to Bradford. All these adelantes are the same to me :oops:

Welshman · 20 May 2011

Don't worry - we all have those days.

Dreadnought · 20 May 2011

NightatLaira said:
Ok, so who's going to be on the first passenger train to run non-stop through York Station in (25years?) next week on Monday?

Spitfires Cumbrian Crusader 3 did that last year after getting diverted from its booked route due to a fire at Swinton.

I know it is a charter but still had passengers on :lol:

merlodlliw · 20 May 2011

ainsworth74 said:
That would be quite amusing if it got signal checked inside the station might as well just open the doors and forget the whole non-stop business!

To be honest though I will be moderately surprised if it actually manages to regularly reach Kings Cross in 4hrs because I can't imagine that it isn't going to end up getting yellows at some point during it's run and that will be all it takes probably to ruin it's run.

Also does anyone fancy betting that either in next December's timetable or next May's a York stop get's quietly added and not long after that a few more will creep in?

Next Decembers year long timetable is being worked on now, no May Edition in 2012, according to Planner

Bob

DarloRich · 20 May 2011

cle said:
I completely agree! They should be able to add in York and make the timings. The fact that they're not just proves today's padding is beyond the pale.

And what's so special about Darlington that every train should stop there? I've never known. Doncaster is more important, for one and not everything should stop there. If anywhere was to be added, it should be Peterborough as next in line.

I think York - Newcastle - Edinburgh should be a standard stopping pattern for 1tph - and this should be the one which extends to Aberdeen/Inverness/Glasgow. People can connect very easily up the line.

And Berwick serves a smaller population radius than any - it should be served by the slower EC services such as the Newcastle stoppers, extending to Edinburgh.

Excuse me what is so sepcial about Darlington! Doncaster more important! pah Peterbourough more importnant? madness! Have you never been to the metropolis that is Darlington. Cockney idiots! :lol:

It is slightly strange that Darlo has an all stopper schedule. However is it any more strange than the FGW clock face timetbale that has 3 out of 4 hourly trains call from Paddington calling Reading, Didcot, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, Bristol TM? The other runs via Bristol Parkway.

Idont know why Daro gets this service pattern. I dont think passenger loadings would justify it so it must be for some sort of timetbaling reason. I am sure a pathing expert can explain. makes it easier for me to get home form the terrible south mind! :lol:

0540 Edinburgh-London KX 23.05.11 (The Flying Scotsman)

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