Driver Manager interview. Failure rate - What caught you out?

david_VI · 14 Mar 2013

I applied April last year for a Greater Anglia trainee driver position. It's taken this long to get to the driver manager interview stage, although i'm still waiting for the date after passing all other tests and interviews.

Theres been such gaps between tests I almost become lazy with preparation till I realise its actually happening. I managed to prepare for the structured interview as i've only done a handful of interviews in my life and most of those were for academic courses... Still I passed!

I know there's a lot of threads and info about this particular interview but I am wondering after getting this far, what are the chances of failing? Do many people get through to this stage for a job?

Also did anything catch you out when you had your driver manager interview that you didn't think about or prepare for? Any tips on things I should look out for or put more time into preparing for?

Just looking to boost a bit of confidence so it doesn't hold me back... fear of the unknown after waiting so long!
Thanks for your help
David

RailUK Forums

Dave1987 · 14 Mar 2013

david_VI said:
I applied April last year for a Greater Anglia trainee driver position. It's taken this long to get to the driver manager interview stage, although i'm still waiting for the date after passing all other tests and interviews.

Theres been such gaps between tests I almost become lazy with preparation till I realise its actually happening. I managed to prepare for the structured interview as i've only done a handful of interviews in my life and most of those were for academic courses... Still I passed!

I know there's a lot of threads and info about this particular interview but I am wondering after getting this far, what are the chances of failing? Do many people get through to this stage for a job?

Also did anything catch you out when you had your driver manager interview that you didn't think about or prepare for? Any tips on things I should look out for or put more time into preparing for?

Just looking to boost a bit of confidence so it doesn't hold me back... fear of the unknown after waiting so long!
Thanks for your help
David

Which depot are you applying for? The DM interview is more like an informal chat compared to the SI. Tips... Do your research on the company, and the job, the training process you will go through etc. You have already got throught the assessments so even if you do not pass the DM interview for GA you can still apply for other driving roles with other TOC's.

Beveridges · 14 Mar 2013

Chance of failing the Driver Manager Interview vary, but note that any applicants left at this stage are likely to be far more serious "competitors" for the job as they have made it this far.

Your chances really depend on how many applicants there are at this stage compared to how many job vacancies there are.

Sometimes at this stage, your chances of getting the job may still be horrendously low. I have known 20 applicants and 2 vacancies by this stage.

Sometimes at this stage, your chances can be very high, like 4 applicants and 3 vacancies.

You will normally get an Ice-Breaker question like "tell me about yourself" followed by questions like "what do you know about the company" and "what do you know about the Drivers role". Make sure you answer these questions very detailed as on these questions you can score some very "easy points" for relatively little effort. You are seriously harming your chances if you don't get full marks on these questions.

The DM interviews then move onto more competency based questions. Probably about 4 or 5 of these. What they could ask you here is endless but I have had "Describe a time you had to rectify a fault", "Describe a time you had lots of things going on at once and had to prioritise", "Describe a time you had to make a difficult decision", "Describe a time you had to work under pressure", "How do you cope with fatigue and motonous, boring repetetive jobs" to some outragious questions like "Describe a time you had to make a sacrifice to achieve a goal", "If I asked your manager to detail what he thinks of you, what would he say", "how many SPAD's and station overruns have we had this year", and "what have you done to change the way others do their work".
In this Interview they can also throw in some customer service questions, questions about whether you have ever done anything to improve your skills, and a question thrown in at the end asking you to describe your strengths and weaknesses.

david_VI · 14 Mar 2013

Dave1987 said:
Which depot are you applying for? The DM interview is more like an informal chat compared to the SI. Tips... Do your research on the company, and the job, the training process you will go through etc. You have already got throught the assessments so even if you do not pass the DM interview for GA you can still apply for other driving roles with other TOC's.

I didn't specify as I live in Colchester and intend to move. The original vacancy I applied for was Bishops Stortford, Cambridge, Chingford. But as most of us who applied went through at different times due to the reaction test breaking and being fixed weeks later I think that vacancy has been filed..

Beveridges said:
Chance of failing the Driver Manager Interview vary, but note that any applicants left at this stage are likely to be far more serious "competitors" for the job as they have made it this far.

Your chances really depend on how many applicants there are at this stage compared to how many job vacancies there are.

Sometimes at this stage, your chances of getting the job may still be horrendously low. I have known 20 applicants and 2 vacancies by this stage.

Sometimes at this stage, your chances can be very high, like 4 applicants and 3 vacancies.

You will normally get an Ice-Breaker question like "tell me about yourself" followed by questions like "what do you know about the company" and "what do you know about the Drivers role". Make sure you answer these questions very detailed as on these questions you can score some very "easy points" for relatively little effort. You are seriously harming your chances if you don't get full marks on these questions.

The DM interviews then move onto more competency based questions. Probably about 4 or 5 of these. What they could ask you here is endless but I have had "Describe a time you had to rectify a fault", "Describe a time you had lots of things going on at once and had to prioritise", "Describe a time you had to make a difficult decision", "Describe a time you had to work under pressure", "How do you cope with fatigue and motonous, boring repetetive jobs" to some outragious questions like "Describe a time you had to make a sacrifice to achieve a goal", "If I asked your manager to detail what he thinks of you, what would he say", "how many SPAD's and station overruns have we had this year", and "what have you done to change the way others do their work".
In this Interview they can also throw in some customer service questions, questions about whether you have ever done anything to improve your skills, and a question thrown in at the end asking you to describe your strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks for this great reply. I had figured it would be like that with regards to chances. But damn those kind of questions floor me... I have plenty of experience in most of those kind of scenarios but being able to think of one in the pressure of an interview terrifies me. I managed the structured interview after a lot of research and practice but it seems the manager one has more chance of being quite random with regards to those type of questions so i'd have to prepare for nearly any possible question which is near impossible I think..eek.

The one about SPADS, really? Is that kind of info about if you research? I've been finding it hard with regards to GA info, grabbed their customer charter but haven't managed to figure out any other sources that would be good. Any pointers would be great

DistrictDriver · 14 Mar 2013

I suspect the reason I failed my TM interview was about relocating. That's the only thing I can think of as the rest of thr interview went really well!
I have previous experience so they skimmed over the vast majority of questions.

I'm still waiting for feedback, but I suspect they didn't believe I was intending to move my family south.
I took various literature into my interview to prove I'd been looking at property and if I failed on that, I think it's a disgrace, however not much I can do about it!

Dave1987 · 14 Mar 2013

david_VI said:
I didn't specify as I live in Colchester and intend to move. The original vacancy I applied for was Bishops Stortford, Cambridge, Chingford. But as most of us who applied went through at different times due to the reaction test breaking and being fixed weeks later I think that vacancy has been filed..

Thanks for this great reply. I had figured it would be like that with regards to chances. But damn those kind of questions floor me... I have plenty of experience in most of those kind of scenarios but being able to think of one in the pressure of an interview terrifies me. I managed the structured interview after a lot of research and practice but it seems the manager one has more chance of being quite random with regards to those type of questions so i'd have to prepare for nearly any possible question which is near impossible I think..eek.

The one about SPADS, really? Is that kind of info about if you research? I've been finding it hard with regards to GA info, grabbed their customer charter but haven't managed to figure out any other sources that would be good. Any pointers would be great

To be honest I would be surprised if they asked you about SPAD's, like I said before do your research on the company. They seem to be quite hot on core values. And knowing what the training process you are about to go through consists of.

TDK · 14 Mar 2013

DistrictDriver said:
I suspect the reason I failed my TM interview was about relocating. That's the only thing I can think of as the rest of thr interview went really well!
I have previous experience so they skimmed over the vast majority of questions.

I'm still waiting for feedback, but I suspect they didn't believe I was intending to move my family south.
I took various literature into my interview to prove I'd been looking at property and if I failed on that, I think it's a disgrace, however not much I can do about it!

If there was another candidate within 45 minutes as good as you they get the job and you don't, I do not think it is a disgrace but a control of risk!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Beveridges said:
"how many SPAD's and station overruns have we had this year",

I have never in 13 years known any manager to ask a potential trainee driver this question, if you was asked it they are just looking for an excuse to fail you I would say
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Dave1987 said:
To be honest I would be surprised if they asked you about SPAD's, like I said before do your research on the company. They seem to be quite hot on core values. And knowing what the training process you are about to go through consists of.

And the PPM, passenger numbers carried per year, routes and maybe traction tyes

Beveridges · 14 Mar 2013

"how many SPAD's and station overruns have we had this year",

Click to expand...

I have never in 13 years known any manager to ask a potential trainee driver this question, if you was asked it they are just looking for an excuse to fail you I would say

Northern Interviews can really throw up some very odd questions, the time they asked this they were mainly interviewing conductors, only conductors would be able to answer that question if they had read the relevant notices at the signing on point, so really unfair really.

jc1 · 14 Mar 2013

If you fail this interview do you still have to wait 6 months before you can have an interview with another TOC even though you have passed all the other tests and structured interview?

playmore64 · 14 Mar 2013

Simple answer no, the world's your oyster feel free to knock on any TOCs door

jc1 · 14 Mar 2013

playmore64 said:
Simple answer no, the world's your oyster feel free to knock on any TOCs door

Thanks for the reply.
Would you now say I have an advantage if I made a speculative approach
to another TOC or they would not look at me any differently to any other applicant?

Beveridges · 14 Mar 2013

Some TOCs may feel like you have evidence of meeting most of the criteria seeing as you have the test pass.

LCC106 · 15 Mar 2013

I think internal candidates get asked a few questions that would show if they were really keen and had taken the time to find out about the job from current drivers. An internal on my course was asked about things that could apply the emergency brake in traffic but externals certainly wouldn't be expected to know the answer to such questions. I'd also be surprised if a TOC would advertise the number of SPADs to the outside world (correct me if there's a database somewhere...) PPM performance knowledge would be useful though as said above.

AlexS · 15 Mar 2013

Beveridges said:
Northern Interviews can really throw up some very odd questions, the time they asked this they were mainly interviewing conductors, only conductors would be able to answer that question if they had read the relevant notices at the signing on point, so really unfair really.

I'm not sure - if you are absolutely serious about becoming a driver and were presently going through the application process then perhaps it's something you could be expected to take a serious interest in? That particular bit of gen is certainly contained in the station staff safety brief at my TOC so it's not hard to get hold of.

It may not be a game ender not to know it but to be fair if you had done your research to that extent it could be a differential between two very close candidates.

Beveridges · 15 Mar 2013

Regarding the question I got about SPAD stats (years ago now, this was). This information could be found as we (Interviewees) were waiting in the signing on point for a while before being called in for Interview. All the info on SPAD's was in the notices at the signing on point. Maybe the question was to see if we didn't just sit there waiting but actually took notice of the notices.

I did not know the answer in the Interview - Not that I'm bothered now - I've got a job that I have no intention of leaving now as I have stated many times before!!

TDK · 15 Mar 2013

LCC106 said:
I think internal candidates get asked a few questions that would show if they were really keen and had taken the time to find out about the job from current drivers. An internal on my course was asked about things that could apply the emergency brake in traffic but externals certainly wouldn't be expected to know the answer to such questions. I'd also be surprised if a TOC would advertise the number of SPADs to the outside world (correct me if there's a database somewhere...) PPM performance knowledge would be useful though as said above.

Internal candidates do have, or well used to have a different SI due to the fact that some of the questions are irrelevant.

The number of SPADS per company is advertised on the net, also trends, areas, signals Spadded, train headcodes, reasons, root causes, catagories and many other SPAd related statistics all the way back to 1998 I believe. These are not advertised by the TOC themselves but by the RSSB in connection to Network Rail.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Beveridges said:
Northern Interviews can really throw up some very odd questions, the time they asked this they were mainly interviewing conductors, only conductors would be able to answer that question if they had read the relevant notices at the signing on point, so really unfair really.

Agree, totally unfair, however you could ask a guard what is on the front inside cover of the WON, or what week are we currently on etc. etc. to ascertain whether they are keen or not. However you would never ask an external non railway candidate these questions. Guards have a much better chance of getting a job as a trainee driver than most grades and well above the externals because they automatically get through the sift (unless they do not correctly fill in the form) due to the fact they cover many of the scored criteria on the form. Foe instance, shiftwork patterns, working with rules and regs, working in a small team etc. etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

AlexS said:
I'm not sure - if you are absolutely serious about becoming a driver and were presently going through the application process then perhaps it's something you could be expected to take a serious interest in? That particular bit of gen is certainly contained in the station staff safety brief at my TOC so it's not hard to get hold of.

It may not be a game ender not to know it but to be fair if you had done your research to that extent it could be a differential between two very close candidates.

You won't need to research it as you won't be asked that question!

notadriver · 15 Mar 2013

That's interesting what you say about Guards going for drivers jobs TDK. Why would a guard be favoured over a depot driver who already has rules and traction knowledge like a driver ?

Beveridges · 16 Mar 2013

That's interesting what you say about Guards going for drivers jobs TDK. Why would a guard be favoured over a depot driver who already has rules and traction knowledge like a driver ?

For one he never said a Guard would be favoured over a Depot Driver he said a Guard would be preferred over "Most other Grades"

Moving from Depot Driver to Mainline is relatively easy if you want it I have known people who have made the move. The only problem is that some TOC's ensure that you have to do the entire course again, just as though you'd come off the street. Other TOC's allow MDD's to bypass the first few months of the course and pick it up at the stage when the Mainline course starts to go in a different direction to the MDD course.

david_VI · 17 Mar 2013

Cheers for the replies all.

DistrictDriver said:
I suspect the reason I failed my TM interview was about relocating. That's the only thing I can think of as the rest of thr interview went really well!
I have previous experience so they skimmed over the vast majority of questions.

I'm still waiting for feedback, but I suspect they didn't believe I was intending to move my family south.
I took various literature into my interview to prove I'd been looking at property and if I failed on that, I think it's a disgrace, however not much I can do about it!

Sorry to hear this, it's something that's worried me since I first applied. I only have myself and the other half and would definitely move.. The fact you took evidence to show you would commit to moving and feel that it still let you down is worrying

I'm also worried about the fact I can't drive, or couldn't.. I've started learning recently incase it helps.. but still won't have passed by the time I have the interview...anything to help raise the chance of being held back due to small things when compared to other interviewees..

BravoGolfMike · 17 Mar 2013

Don't worry about having no driving license. They probably won't ask, but if they do the question will be phrased "How do you intend to get to work at 03.00 when there is no public transport?" You can answer "I will drive," without lying and they won't ask to see a drivers license. Just make sure you pass your test before you startshifts! Also whilst in training it will, for a couple of months at least, be mon-fri 9-5(ish) classroom based so that gives you some extra breathing space. Honestly, of all the things to concern yourself over, this shouldn't be one so don't worry about it.

Dave1987 · 17 Mar 2013

BravoGolfMike said:
Don't worry about having no driving license. They probably won't ask, but if they do the question will be phrased "How do you intend to get to work at 03.00 when there is no public transport?" You can answer "I will drive," without lying and they won't ask to see a drivers license. Just make sure you pass your test before you startshifts! Also whilst in training it will, for a couple of months at least, be mon-fri 9-5(ish) classroom based so that gives you some extra breathing space. Honestly, of all the things to concern yourself over, this shouldn't be one so don't worry about it.

Really I would not go there! Can't believe you are suggesting lying or being flexible with the truth. What if he happened to fail his test?

BravoGolfMike · 17 Mar 2013

Then he would have to take it again until he passed. And if he literally couldn't pass then move close enough to work to cycle. Nobody is suggesting lying and I doubt that anyone would care how said candidate got to work as long as they did.

LCC106 · 17 Mar 2013

I agree. Why lie? As long as you can get to the depot for the required time, it's no business of the company whether you walk, drive, ride a bike, catch a lift from a friend or relative or get a taxi.

Lying, even with the best of intentions, will lead to a breakdown in trust once found out.

A better response would be that you are awaiting a driving test but until such time that you pass, you have made other arrangements to ensure you can arrive / leave at any time of the day or night.

BravoGolfMike · 17 Mar 2013

Saying "I will drive" is not lying as it is the intention of the candidate to drive. If the question is asked "do you drive," then clearly I would not suggest lying and saying yes!

TDK · 17 Mar 2013

BravoGolfMike said:
Don't worry about having no driving license. They probably won't ask, but if they do the question will be phrased "How do you intend to get to work at 03.00 when there is no public transport?" You can answer "I will drive," without lying and they won't ask to see a drivers license. Just make sure you pass your test before you startshifts! Also whilst in training it will, for a couple of months at least, be mon-fri 9-5(ish) classroom based so that gives you some extra breathing space. Honestly, of all the things to concern yourself over, this shouldn't be one so don't worry about it.

Rubbish and you know it all this sort of advice does is leave the door open for others to get jobs as the poor sole lying at interview will be found out. The most important criteria at the moment is location, any more than 45 minutes, 1 hour at a push from your chosen depot you have got no chance unless you can gaurentee relocation. the list below is the most favourable methods for getting to work and in this order will score most of your points!

1. walk
2. cycle
3. drive

Any other answer will certainly not help your cause!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

BravoGolfMike said:
Nobody is suggesting lying and I doubt that anyone would care how said candidate got to work as long as they did.

Management certainly do care how you get to work as a late on duty with a train cancelled is a high cost for the TOC, read the post of mine above and the list order, all have risks but walking has the lowest for a late on duty!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

david_VI said:
Cheers for the replies all.

The fact you took evidence to show you would commit to moving and feel that it still let you down is worrying

If there is someone on a level you are at and they do not need to relocate they will get the job and with over 500 applicants per post in some cases this is very likely.

david_VI said:
I'm also worried about the fact I can't drive, or couldn't.. I've started learning recently incase it helps.. but still won't have passed by the time I have the interview...anything to help raise the chance of being held back due to small things when compared to other interviewees..

I would be worried too, sorry dude but this is a problem if you do not have the means of getting to work by yourself unless you can cycle it in 45 minutes. If you live more than 45 minutes from the chosen depot and do not have a car or a motor bike you have decimated your chances, I would get a scooter meanwhile and do your CBT this will certainly help you with any rail related job applications.

A-driver · 17 Mar 2013

TDK said:
Rubbish and you know it all this sort of advice does is leave the door open for others to get jobs as the poor sole lying at interview will be found out. The most important criteria at the moment is location, any more than 45 minutes, 1 hour at a push from your chosen depot you have got no chance unless you can gaurentee relocation. the list below is the most favourable methods for getting to work and in this order will score most of your points!

1. walk
2. cycle
3. drive

Any other answer will certainly not help your cause!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Management certainly do care how you get to work as a late on duty with a train cancelled is a high cost for the TOC, read the post of mine above and the list order, all have risks but walking has the lowest for a late on duty!

To be fair most drivers at my company rely on the train to get to work, especially at the southern end depots. There are a number of drivers who don't have a driving licence including me and in both my interviews for southern (as a trainee) and FCC (as a qualified) when asked I said I would be relying on the train and public transport to get into work. At both locations I live far to far from the depots to walk or cycle and don't drive a car and said exactly that in interview and had no problems getting either job.

TDK · 18 Mar 2013

A-driver said:
To be fair most drivers at my company rely on the train to get to work, especially at the southern end depots. There are a number of drivers who don't have a driving licence including me and in both my interviews for southern (as a trainee) and FCC (as a qualified) when asked I said I would be relying on the train and public transport to get into work. At both locations I live far to far from the depots to walk or cycle and don't drive a car and said exactly that in interview and had no problems getting either job.

Southern is the exception to be fair to you as their services run very early and late, but now this new fatigue index clean up is imminent things have changed. The new fatigue index directives take into account travelling time from door to door and the TOC's are shaking in their boots with existing drivers who are more than 45 minutes from the depot. Do you have any jobs on your roster where you cannot use public transport, if so how do you get to work then? A-Driver, you are correct in what you say with the old hidden directives as there was no association with the fatigue index and this index was based solely on booking on to booking off times but the new Europeam directives being door to door is a totally different kettle of fish.

BravoGolfMike · 18 Mar 2013

TDK said:
Rubbish and you know it all this sort of advice does is leave the door open for others to get jobs as the poor sole lying at interview will be found out. The most important criteria at the moment is location, any more than 45 minutes, 1 hour at a push from your chosen depot you have got no chance unless you can gaurentee relocation. the list below is the most favourable methods for getting to work and in this order will score most of your points!

1. walk
2. cycle
3. drive

Any other answer will certainly not help your cause!

Of course it's not rubbish and as I pointed out, it is not lying either. It is fairly simple really. If someone asks you how you are going to get to work, saying "I will drive" is not lying because you fully intend to drive. If they then ask you if you hold a driving license then you can start talking about how you have a test booked etc or have other arrangements.

I seriously doubt they will start checking up on you unless you are consistently late.

TDK said:
Management certainly do care how you get to work as a late on duty with a train cancelled is a high cost for the TOC, read the post of mine above and the list order, all have risks but walking has the lowest for a late on duty!

If there is someone on a level you are at and they do not need to relocate they will get the job and with over 500 applicants per post in some cases this is very likely.

I have never known anybody to care because you make sure you get to work on time. I know a few who get taxi's one way, bus the other or if they are lucky enough to occasionally start/finish at the same time as another driver/guard, grab a lift with them. Management do not care because these people are always on time, or at least there is no pattern of lateness which doesn't correlate to those who drive cars.

TDK said:
I would be worried too, sorry dude but this is a problem if you do not have the means of getting to work by yourself unless you can cycle it in 45 minutes. If you live more than 45 minutes from the chosen depot and do not have a car or a motor bike you have decimated your chances, I would get a scooter meanwhile and do your CBT this will certainly help you with any rail related job applications.

Why worry? He has got this far. Telling someone to worry before an interview is hardly helpful. All he has to do is provide an assurance that he will get to work on time and stick to it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

TDK said:
Southern is the exception to be fair to you as their services run very early and late, but now this new fatigue index clean up is imminent things have changed. The new fatigue index directives take into account travelling time from door to door and the TOC's are shaking in their boots with existing drivers who are more than 45 minutes from the depot. Do you have any jobs on your roster where you cannot use public transport, if so how do you get to work then? A-Driver, you are correct in what you say with the old hidden directives as there was no association with the fatigue index and this index was based solely on booking on to booking off times but the new Europeam directives being door to door is a totally different kettle of fish.

This 45 mins thing is interesting, is this going to be a new standard coming in with the new driving license? Any idea when it is coming in? I wonder if grandfather rights are going to be negotiated and applied to staff who currently are employed on the assumption and understanding that they are upto 60 mins away.

LCC106 · 18 Mar 2013

Maybe that needs clarifying by "I will drive when I've passed my test. Until then, I will..."

I'm sorry, BravoGolfMike, but I really disagree with your comment. I believe the majority of people hearing those words would assume that "I will drive..." means that someone has a full driving licence.

BravoGolfMike · 18 Mar 2013

Feel free to disagree. I personally don't think that highlighting the fact that you live too far to walk/cycle yet don't drive is a good idea but there you go.

Driver Manager interview. Failure rate - What caught you out?

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