Route:Chiltern Only

LexyBoy · 31 May 2011

Does anyone know anything about the mysterious appearance of "Route:Chiltern Only" tickets on NRE, priced the same as the normal "Route:High Wycombe" (or similar) tickets?

Are there other examples where flows have changed from a geographical routeing to a TOC? Why is it done - to simplify ORCATS allocations? A complaint from XC? Or something more sinister?

I have a worrying feeling that this is how excesses will be phased out :roll:

RailUK Forums

bb21 · 31 May 2011

LexyBoy said:
Does anyone know anything about the mysterious appearance of "Route:Chiltern Only" tickets on NRE, priced the same as the normal "Route:High Wycombe" (or similar) tickets?

Are there other examples where flows have changed from a geographical routeing to a TOC? Why is it done - to simplify ORCATS allocations? A complaint from XC? Or something more sinister?

I have a worrying feeling that this is how excesses will be phased out :roll:

Is it just for Advances or for flexible ones too? I can't seem to find an example for flexible ones so can you give an example?

OwlMan · 31 May 2011

They are advance tickets - no different to Virgin Only or LM Only advance tickets.

LexyBoy · 31 May 2011

Try searching for MYB-BMO, then "Show Fares". Find a Chiltern route (i.e. no changes in this example), and select "More fares" then "Show all fares".

If you then select the fare and click "View summary", one £32.00 (SVS) fare has route High Wycombe and the other has Chiltern Only.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

collybs said:
They are advance tickets - no different to Virgin Only or LM Only advance tickets.

No, it's for flexible fares too - I didn't make it very clear in the OP though. They don't show up by default, but they are there.

bb21 · 31 May 2011

It's not in Avantix so I guess it's an error somehow.

Paul Kelly · 31 May 2011

Maybe an ORCATS thing. If a flow contains a protected fare (e.g. SVR or weekly season), then they are not allowed to remove it without permission of the Department for Transport, so they would have to leave the High Wycombe flow intact. Maybe it will be reduced so it only contains a SVR and weekly season (i.e. the protected fares), and unregulated fares (CDR, OPR etc.) will only be available Chiltern Only? Could it be a symptom of Chiltern now being owned by Arriva?

There is another strange one between London and Birmingham where there is a weekly season route NORTHAMPTON priced at £158.40 but also one route LDN MIDLAND ONLY priced at £127. You could maybe hazard a guess that £127 would be approximately equal to the ORCATS revenue London Midlands gets from the route NORTHAMPTON ticket? Or am I being too cynical?

OwlMan · 31 May 2011

Indigo2 said:
There is another strange one between London and Birmingham where there is a weekly season route NORTHAMPTON priced at £158.40 but also one route LDN MIDLAND ONLY priced at £127. You could maybe hazard a guess that £127 would be approximately equal to the ORCATS revenue London Midlands gets from the route NORTHAMPTON ticket? Or am I being too cynical?

Of course you should never buy a Birmingham To London Terminals LM Only Season Ticket (or one from any station between Rugby & Stafford either on the TV or via Birmingham) as they are all the same price (£127)

Peter

scotsman · 31 May 2011

Surely High Wycombe and Chiltern are the same route? Presumable the other permitted route would be Route Oxford?

Cherry_Picker · 31 May 2011

scotsman said:
Surely High Wycombe and Chiltern are the same route? Presumable the other permitted route would be Route Oxford?

I would imagine its more to do with the fact that XC can claim a slice of the pie at the north end of the route as it is perfectly possible to go New Street-Banbury > Banbury-Marylebone, or even a London Midland train from Snow Hill-Leamington Spa > then a Chiltern service into Marylebone.

hick · 31 May 2011

I think it might be simply to make it easier for the infrequent travellers. Many infrequent travellers at Marylebone are confused by route High Wycombe on their ticket when as far as they can see on the departure board their train goes nowhere near HWY.

bb21 · 31 May 2011

hick said:
I think it might be simply to make it easier for the infrequent travellers. Many infrequent travellers at Marylebone are confused by route High Wycombe on their ticket when as far as they can see on the departure board their train goes nowhere near HWY.

For the passengers' benefit? On the railways? Nooooooo

Seriously I do think that like Cherry_Picker has pointed out, it probably has more to do with ORCATS than anything else. Chiltern keeps 100% of revenue on a Route Chiltern Only ticket, whereas other operators might get a share for a geographically restricted fare.

barrykas · 31 May 2011

LexyBoy said:
Does anyone know anything about the mysterious appearance of "Route:Chiltern Only" tickets on NRE, priced the same as the normal "Route:High Wycombe" (or similar) tickets?

It's a fudge to do with Chiltern's new mobile ticketing app. As such, nobody SHOULD be issuing physical tickets with that route on them (other than Advances), due to impartial retailing rules.

HTH,

Barry

LexyBoy · 1 Jun 2011

barrykas said:
It's a fudge to do with Chiltern's new mobile ticketing app. As such, nobody SHOULD be issuing physical tickets with that route on them (other than Advances), due to impartial retailing rules.

HTH,

Barry

Thanks, that's good to know. It seems it's only the London-Birmingham flow where these fares exist anyway. Seems a rather lazy way of doing things!

hick said:
I think it might be simply to make it easier for the infrequent travellers. Many infrequent travellers at Marylebone are confused by route High Wycombe on their ticket when as far as they can see on the departure board their train goes nowhere near HWY.

This occurred to me too, but people have managed thus far, and can always ask someone.

scotsman said:
Surely High Wycombe and Chiltern are the same route? Presumable the other permitted route would be Route Oxford?

Without wishing to re-open the debate, the point is that a High Wycombe ticket can be excessed to travel another route (via Milton Keynes with Virgin would be the obvious one!), whereas the Chiltern Only ticket cannot and would require a new ticket to be bought. Also changing to XC at Banbury can be useful if connecting at BHM.

Lad Brookes · 1 Jun 2011

LexyBoy said:
Thanks, that's good to know. It seems it's only the London-Birmingham flow where these fares exist anyway. Seems a rather lazy way of doing things!

Is the London-Birmingham flow the only one where the Route High Wycombe ticket would be valid on Virgin (Marylebone-Leamington-Coventry-New Street)?

OwlMan · 1 Jun 2011

No, it also applies to flows from other WM stations ( Walsall, Wolverhampton, Stourbridge Junction and others)

Peter

Lad Brookes · 1 Jun 2011

Sorry, I should've made that clearer.

I meant the only flow which has barcode tickets available where the Route High Wycombe would be valid on Virgin?

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