£0.10 Anytime Day Single. Bargain!

[Clip]

2 ticket offices were shocked at the price when I asked for a HDM - SKM ticket.

Is it the same for Gt Missenden too then?

 

[RailwayDan]

I knew I was saving that £0.60 left in loyalty vouchers on Red Spotted Hanky for something!

No problem buying these tickets (and they won't incur the debit card charges either, so no harm done), on RSE it does ask you to select a service though, or it comes up as £12 each way. Seat reservations not compulsory though

 

[Bedpan]

If I go to Wendover, can I buy one from the ticket machine there?

 

[NSEFAN]

Presumably the ticket is available from TVMs, as it's just a normal ticket.

A guy at Reading refused to sell me this ticket, he refused to believe that it was valid!

 

[londonbridge]

CHPRV is 0.00!

We have a winner! The UKs cheapest rail fare. Unless there are any journeys where the TOC pays you to travel.

Like this you mean?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=789826&postcount=9

 

[Bedpan]

Presumably the ticket is available from TVMs, as it's just a normal ticket.

A guy at Reading refused to sell me this ticket, he refused to believe that it was valid!

Cheers, I mght have a go later in the week if I get time.

 

[Nicholas43]

I actually wanted to go to Wendover today (from Oxford). So I got the bus to Haddenham. The ticket machine there offers a choice of two anytime day singles to Wendover, both 10p (or 5p with a railcard): 'not London' and 'any permitted'. I chose 'any permitted'. My ticket was gripped without comment by the heritage guard on the heritage railcar from Princes Risborough to Aylesbury. My ticket did not open the gate at Aylesbury. I did not seek assistance (because I did not wish to enter into a discussion of the application of National Condition 16 to my ticket).
The ticket machine at Haddenham also offer 10p/5p singles to Stoke Mandeville. It says it can't issue tickets to Great Missenden or Amersham.
The ticket machine at Wendover offers two tickets to Haddenham: 10p 'not London' and £8.00 'any permitted'.

Two questions for any of you gurus of the routing guide:
1. What's with the two options? As Yorkie has already posted, origin and destination share routing points Banbury, London, Greenford, and Oxford. Therefore the only permitted route is the shortest, ie via Princes Risborough and Aylesbury, isn't it?
2. Am I right in thinking that Marylebone to Aylesbury via Amersham, and Princes Risborough to Aylesbury, aren't on any routing guide map (not even the one with the promising code GC)?

 

[First class]

Two questions for any of you gurus of the routing guide:
1. What's with the two options? As Yorkie has already posted, origin and destination share routing points Banbury, London, Greenford, and Oxford. Therefore the only permitted route is the shortest, ie via Princes Risborough and Aylesbury, isn't it?
2. Am I right in thinking that Marylebone to Aylesbury via Amersham, and Princes Risborough to Aylesbury, aren't on any routing guide map (not even the one with the promising code GC)?

1) This ticket is clearly an anomaly. However the routeings could be to help define an ORCATS claim, otherwise it may be part of a bigger cluster which needs a route NOT LONDON. The Any Permitted routeing is correct though.

2) Someone else can check...

 

[Nicholas43]

1) ... the routeings could be to help define an ORCATS claim

Che? The (only) permitted route, via Aylesbury, and the theoretical alternative, via Marylebone, are both 100.00% Chiltern.

 

[First class]

Che? The (only) permitted route, via Aylesbury, and the theoretical alternative, via Marylebone, are both 100.00% Chiltern.

Yes, but you have to view it as part of a wider cluster. One person within Chiltern will manage thousands of fare combinations, so creates easier to manage "groups" called clusters.

Some of the stations within these clusters may see the same fare management (rise/decrease) policy applied, but need a routeing NOT LONDON.

 

[yorkie]

1. What's with the two options? As Yorkie has already posted, origin and destination share routing points Banbury, London, Greenford, and Oxford. Therefore the only permitted route is the shortest, ie via Princes Risborough and Aylesbury, isn't it?

One might expect that the following may be requirements of a Pricing Manager:

1) Knowledge & understanding of the Routeing Guide
2) Knowledge & understanding of the NRCoC
3) Intelligent, good communication skills

However some of them appear to be lacking in these skills.

A few years ago the pricing manager of the TOC that set the fare from York to a major city approx 50 miles away, denied that he set the fare, claiming it was another TOC. After insisting that he checked, he then admitted he did set that fare.

The pricing manager of another TOC has TOC-specific fares for their own TOC, yet apparently instructs his own staff to reject the tickets on certain trains.

And the pricing manager of a well-known TOC in the former Network Area has introduced secret restrictions on Advance tickets, that mean that unless you specify an obscure 'via' point you can't get any Advance tickets for long distance flows on other operators to many destinations on his network.

And finally we come to the pricing manager of a TOC that operates trains in the London & Midlands areas, who has introduced break of journey restrictions on tickets that, by definition in The Manual, cannot have break of journey restrictions. So ridiculous was this restriction, and so lacking in communications skills was this manager, that the Marketing Manager encouraged people to start short anyway.

There were 'issues' with fares under BR, but what followed since, has been absolutely symbolical, and it's getting worse.

Some pricing managers appear to be clueless numpties who know nothing about how the overall industry works, and have absolutely no idea what terms they are actually setting, and don't seem to realise that some of their policies go against everything they're supposed to be doing. They should be replaced with knowledgeable, intelligent and resourceful people who actually have a clue what they're doing.

No wonder ticketing is such a mess.

Anyone with very little knowledge can stuff up the fares for thousands of people!

There are, of course, good pricing managers, and they - quite rightly - get frustrated when their colleagues let the rail industry down so badly, with one good, knowledgeable pricing manager referring to an anti-customer knowledgeable (IMO) pricing manager mas "may throw a wobbly".

No TOCs mentioned, but feel free to guess - in your own minds - who I am referring to

 

[island]

I knew I was saving that £0.60 left in loyalty vouchers on Red Spotted Hanky for something!

No problem buying these tickets (and they won't incur the debit card charges either, so no harm done), on RSE it does ask you to select a service though, or it comes up as £12 each way. Seat reservations not compulsory though

No debit card charges on RSH...

 

[barrykas]

Some pricing managers appear to be clueless numpties who know nothing about how the overall industry works, and have absolutely no idea what terms they are actually setting, and don't seem to realise that some of their policies go against everything they're supposed to be doing. They should be replaced with knowledgeable, intelligent and resourceful people who actually have a clue what they're doing.

No wonder ticketing is such a mess.

Anyone with very little knowledge can stuff up the fares for thousands of people!

Turning it on its head, you can also get Marketing Departments who come up with ideas that they think are wonderful, but don't think to consult anyone (least of all the Pricing Manager) as to what effect their idea will have if it's implemented, which then results in frontline staff getting it in the neck.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[RailwayDan]

No debit card charges on RSH...

I meant that RSH wouldn't have to pay to process the payment on debit card, which would cost more than the ticket itself.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

HDM - WND is now showing as £8 anytime single on Chilterns site

 

[transportphoto]

HDM - WND is now showing as £8 anytime single on Chilterns site

They've withdrawn it Not showing on FGW's (thetrainline) site either

Oh well, no hope of me buying the tickets just for their comical value

 

[trc666]

They must have only done it today then, as I ordered some on Chiltern's website (along with the various child and railcard discounts) and collected them from a TVM at Waterloo yesterday afternoon after work.

 

[yorkie]

They've withdrawn it Not showing on FGW's (thetrainline) site either

Oh well, no hope of me buying the tickets just for their comical value

I wouldn't have left it so late, it was always going to get withdrawn. Once a huge anomaly is posted on this site, it won't last long. Anyway you can have some of my spares. We will do this route next month!

 

[transportphoto]

I know - It is sort of my fault but.. oh well...

 

[jon0844]

Surely everyone got one straight away? Chiltern should be happy that so many tickets were sold to people who won't even use them - so they actually made a (small) profit!

 

[MichaelAMW]

I actually wanted to go to Wendover today (from Oxford). So I got the bus to Haddenham. (... snip ...) The ticket machine at Haddenham also offer 10p/5p singles to Stoke Mandeville. It says it can't issue tickets to Great Missenden or Amersham. The ticket machine at Wendover offers two tickets to Haddenham: 10p 'not London' and £8.00 'any permitted'.

Two questions for any of you gurus of the routing guide:
1. What's with the two options? As Yorkie has already posted, origin and destination share routing points Banbury, London, Greenford, and Oxford. Therefore the only permitted route is the shortest, ie via Princes Risborough and Aylesbury, isn't it?
2. Am I right in thinking that Marylebone to Aylesbury via Amersham, and Princes Risborough to Aylesbury, aren't on any routing guide map (not even the one with the promising code GC)?

Sorry, bit slow in replying. To answer your first point.

The routeing guide does inform you that via London is a permitted route. From the 'Routeing guide in detail' document, p F7:

"If there is a common routeing point, the permitted route is the shortest route or a route which is longer by no more than 3 miles. Also permitted is the route followed by direct trains to and from the common routeing point if the journey is made on those trains."

The example given is Stratford to Solihull, changing in Birmingham by using direct trains, while via Leamington is the shortest route. In this case, by analogy, direct trains to and from London would be permitted for Haddenham & TP to Wendover.

 

[tony_mac]

It also says you can't do that if it means doubling-back,

In that same example,

Routes via Banbury and Coventry fail the route test for
doubling back at Leamington.

Even though the route it does allow doubles-back through Tyseley.

 

[LexyBoy]

Sorry, bit slow in replying. To answer your first point.

The routeing guide does inform you that via London is a permitted route. From the 'Routeing guide in detail' document, p F7:

"If there is a common routeing point, the permitted route is the shortest route or a route which is longer by no more than 3 miles. Also permitted is the route followed by direct trains to and from the common routeing point if the journey is made on those trains."

The example given is Stratford to Solihull, changing in Birmingham by using direct trains, while via Leamington is the shortest route. In this case, by analogy, direct trains to and from London would be permitted for Haddenham & TP to Wendover.

This is a rather confusing page though. It states that (in the example given) going via Banbury is not permitted due to doubling back at Leamington, despite this too being a "direct route to and from the common routeing point". The implication seems to be that it's only permitted if at least one of the trains doesn't stop at any stations through which you double back.

Obviously this isn't an issue in this case (as long as you get an Aylesbury line train from MYB), so I agree it should be valid.

 

[richw]

It also says you can't do that if it means doubling-back,

In that same example,


Even though the route it does allow doubles-back through Tyseley.

I can think of several routes which are only possible via double backing, can we assume these to be exceptions to the rule

Plymouth to Reading West i shall use as my example

The above rule would mean changing at probably Taunton and Newbury.
However on FGW website nearly all journeys in the planner tell you to change at Reading.

 

[MichaelAMW]

To follow up the last three replies, you need:

-- Common routeing points; *and*
-- Direct trains to and from the routeing points

So, via Coventry or Banbury, for the RG example, involves changing trains, at Leamington in this case, and the Reading West example doesn't involve common routeing points.

I don't think that there were direct trains from Stratford to Banbury at the time that section was written (or at least, so few that they weren't considered).

 

[bnm]

One of my 'souvenir' tickets:

http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bnm/tickets1b.jpg

 

[richw]

What is a common routing point and how is it determined?

 

[MichaelAMW]

To follow up the last three replies, you need:

-- Common routeing points; *and*
-- Direct trains to and from the routeing points

So, via Coventry or Banbury, for the RG example, involves changing trains, at Leamington in this case, and the Reading West example doesn't involve common routeing points.

I don't think that there were direct trains from Stratford to Banbury at the time that section was written (or at least, so few that they weren't considered).

Just checked. The paper routeing guide and an edition of the timetable both cam out on 28 Sep 1997. There were three trains from Stratford to Banbury: 06.55, 20.05, 23.15. Whether they were considered in the example is anyone's guess...

 

[tony_mac]

I don't think that there were direct trains from Stratford to Banbury at the time that section was written (or at least, so few that they weren't considered).

That would explain it, but it's not exactly clear!
And now Tyseley is a routeing point the example is even more difficult to work out.

What is a common routing point and how is it determined?

Stations that are not routeing points are always related to one or more routeing points (and up to 4, roughly one for each direction).

These are listed in 'Section B' of the routeing guide.
Where two stations both have one of the routeing points the same then they have a 'common routeing point' and special rules apply (Only the shortest route, direct trains, and direct trains to/from the common routeing point are allowed).

 

[LexyBoy]

I can think of several routes which are only possible via double backing, can we assume these to be exceptions to the rule

Plymouth to Reading West i shall use as my example

This is possible without double backing, but of course it's much longer to do so. Secondly, it's not the same situation as Plymouth and Reading West do not share any RPs ('common routeing points'). Thirdly, as Reading West and Reading are part of a station group, doubling back within that group is permitted on mapped journeys.

A closer analogy would be Newbury to Mortimer. These share a common RP (Reading), and so travel via Reading (doubling back) is also permitted.

So, via Coventry or Banbury, for the RG example, involves changing trains, at Leamington in this case, and the Reading West example doesn't involve common routeing points.

D'oh! For some reason I just thought there would be, but as you say there are only a few such direct trains.